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Frank, that was a very interesting post. I didn't know a lot of that - I did know one Algerian who lived in Paris and 'hated it' - he wanted me to try to bring him to the USA but I refused - also he was a big user of hash. Not really my kind of friend but I did feel for the guy.
Another problem is that our schools and teachers are called 'bad' because they cannot make up for the cultural differences in the short time that they have illegal alien and anchor babies in their charge. Also the schools are blamed for the drop out rate but how can you combat the pressure of their families who expect them to do so?
it probably would be slightly less disruptive if they were from a country where english was the primary language.
in any case, our country's job base cannot afford to absorb this influx of unskilled labor.
So people would be fine with a million illegals from the English speaking Caribbean coming in? I tend to think not given the racial issues involved. I think the anti-illegal people here would probably be happier with Russians and Eastern Euros coming in who didn't speak English rather than Jamaicans or Trinidadians mainly because the former group consists of whites and the latter group consists of blacks and mixed race people. As much as people here say their views on illegal immigration aren't related to race - and I do believe some of them - there's no denying that racism does play a factor in the beliefs of the more over the top anti-illegal types here.
BTW, Jamaican immigration to the US has declined even though Jamaica still has massive and very extreme poverty. Any reasons why? (I did read Barbados has improved its problems to the extent that it now has the highest HDI of any black-majority country in the world and is Second World not Third, but the same is definitely not true in JA)
So people would be fine with a million illegals from the English speaking Caribbean coming in? I tend to think not given the racial issues involved. I think the anti-illegal people here would probably be happier with Russians and Eastern Euros coming in who didn't speak English rather than Jamaicans or Trinidadians mainly because the former group consists of whites and the latter group consists of blacks and mixed race people. As much as people here say their views on illegal immigration aren't related to race - and I do believe some of them - there's no denying that racism does play a factor in the beliefs of the more over the top anti-illegal types here.
BTW, Jamaican immigration to the US has declined even though Jamaica still has massive and very extreme poverty. Any reasons why? (I did read Barbados has improved its problems to the extent that it now has the highest HDI of any black-majority country in the world and is Second World not Third, but the same is definitely not true in JA)
Racism is ABSOLUTELY present in some of the sentiment involving illegal immigration today..it would be absurd to state otherwise. The problem is, that is not a sufficient reason to bury the discussion, or to maintain that it's "no problem", or to accuse anyone concerned with the situation as a 'racist'. It's a HUGE, widespread, and growing problem..with a 'somewhat' relevant racial component; that's all.
Racism MAY be a factor in the controversy; so is sheer NUMBERS; so is societal discord; so is our ability to 'assimilate'; and so is ILLEGALITY.
Racism's a part of it....exactly how BIG a part is open to queston. I've heard LOTS of racist rhetoric on this forum..most from the 'anti' side, some from the 'pros'. I've also heard any number of ludicrous, far-fetched, imaginative convoluted "reasons" why illegal immigration is really a "good" thing, that it "benefits" our society, and that it's "really just like the LEGAL immigration of a century ago".
There's PLENTY of ill-considered nonsense to go around here. Nobody has the monopoly on that...not the racists, nor anyone else.
So people would be fine with a million illegals from the English speaking Caribbean coming in? I tend to think not given the racial issues involved. I think the anti-illegal people here would probably be happier with Russians and Eastern Euros coming in who didn't speak English rather than Jamaicans or Trinidadians mainly because the former group consists of whites and the latter group consists of blacks and mixed race people. As much as people here say their views on illegal immigration aren't related to race - and I do believe some of them - there's no denying that racism does play a factor in the beliefs of the more over the top anti-illegal types here.
BTW, Jamaican immigration to the US has declined even though Jamaica still has massive and very extreme poverty. Any reasons why? (I did read Barbados has improved its problems to the extent that it now has the highest HDI of any black-majority country in the world and is Second World not Third, but the same is definitely not true in JA)
Good points, but have you personally ever talked to anyone who lived in a area with a substantial, recently-arrived population of 'rough', poor, lower-class Russians? I have, and I can assure you that the 'locals' were not altogether thrilled. These are "ROUGH" people, to put it bluntly, and their acceptance by modest, Middle-Class Americans has not been total, to put it mildly. Talk about 'different lifestyles'!...
'Whiteness' may help to some extent, but culture counts heavily, as well. At least, that's how the story was relayed to me. Colonies of Russians MAY be fairly rare today in America, but there are a few.
As a general rule, I'd say 'rough, tough, uneducated, lower-class people' would probably ALWAYS have problems 'fitting in', while cultured, educated professionals, regardless of their race, would probably have a much warmer welcome.
In another thread in the Mexico section it was mentioned that if most Mexicans looked as White as this Anglo woman
That most of the anti-illegal types would not have a problem with the U.S being invaded by millions of illegal immigrants from Mexico.
I don't think many of the men who consider themselves to be anti-illegal immigration, would have a problem with seeing a significantly drastic increase of women with blond hair and blue eyes from foreign countries starting a new life in the U.S, even if it was done through illegal ways.
Uh, if they were 50 deep in the line at the WIC office,costing billions a year in stolen social services, kids dominating the core activities at school because their English sucks or living 20 per apt you can bet your #SS I'd have a problem with it. It irritates me when I can't communicate with someone who speaks another language and has somehow landed a job in my City. How'd you get that job without being able to speak English? Anyone dealing with the public should be able to speak a common language.
The most ridiculous part of your post is that Spanish Women are among the most beautiful on the planet. There are plenty of pretty Latinas running around illegally and I don't see them getting special treatment for their beauty as they should not.
There are legal Immigrants and then there are thieves.
Uh, if they were 50 deep in the line at the WIC office,costing billions a year in stolen social services, kids dominatating the core activities at school because their English sucks or living 20 per apt you can bet your #SS I'd have a problem with it. It irritates me when I can't communicate with someone who speaks another language and has somehow landed a job in my City. How'd you get that job without being able to speak English? Anyone dealing with the public should be able to speak a common language.
The most rediculous part of your post is that Spanish woman are among the most beautiful on the planet. There are plenty of pretty Latinas running around illegaly and I don't see them getting special treatment for their beauty as they should not.
I wonder, are you the only person this individual is having trouble communicating with. Or is he having trouble with all their customers? Since the person seems to be able to get a job and hold on to it, it would seem to me that most customers are able to overcome any communication barriers.
Are you in an area, or is the shop in an area where English is not the main language? Then on that local area the common language is the one who most people speak, according to your reasoning then in that area, you should be able to speak the common language.
Or does that reasoning only apply when you get to define the common language? Or the scope of the geographic area where the common is extracted from.
There are plenty of pretty Latinas running around illegally and I don't see them getting special treatment for their beauty as they should not.
Not as many as there used to be due to more immigration coming from Southern Mexico and Central America as opposed to Northern and Central Mexico. Women from Chiapas and Oaxaca tend not to be very good looking as a whole though there are exceptions as in all countries/regions.
IMO if most Mexican illegals in the US were still from the north and center as was the case until about 10-15 years ago attitudes might be different. The changing regional dynamics of Mexican illegal immigration have definitely played an effect in hardening sentiments against illegal immigration in the US. If the patterns were like they used to be, there'd be a lot more gorgeous Mexicans around, and yes, they would be treated better. American society is very oriented towards looks and as Oscar Wilde said over a century ago good looking people can get away with anything
Good points, but have you personally ever talked to anyone who lived in a area with a substantial, recently-arrived population of 'rough', poor, lower-class Russians? I have, and I can assure you that the 'locals' were not altogether thrilled. These are "ROUGH" people, to put it bluntly, and their acceptance by modest, Middle-Class Americans has not been total, to put it mildly. Talk about 'different lifestyles'!
I'm not sure about that. "Modest Middle Class Americans" may not be overtly thrilled with Russian culture but they don't see it as negatively as they might see certain other cultures. Using L.A. as an example, far more people would be willing to live by Sunset and La Brea than in Pico-Union or Van Nuys. Using N.Y. as an example, more people would live in Kensington than in Brownsville. Using S.F. as an example, FAR more people would live in the Richmond District than in Visitacion Valley.
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'Whiteness' may help to some extent, but culture counts heavily, as well. At least, that's how the story was relayed to me. Colonies of Russians MAY be fairly rare today in America, but there are a few.
I just named some of them. (Actually the list for NY would be pretty long....)
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As a general rule, I'd say 'rough, tough, uneducated, lower-class people' would probably ALWAYS have problems 'fitting in', while cultured, educated professionals, regardless of their race, would probably have a much warmer welcome.
I agree about cultured educated professionals fitting in well regardless of race but when it comes to "rough, tough, uneducated lower class people" it does play a factor. America's more classist than racist these days but on the bottom of the economic scale there is still racism.
Not as many as there used to be due to more immigration coming from Southern Mexico and Central America as opposed to Northern and Central Mexico. Women from Chiapas and Oaxaca tend not to be very good looking as a whole though there are exceptions as in all countries/regions.
IMO if most Mexican illegals in the US were still from the north and center as was the case until about 10-15 years ago attitudes might be different. The changing regional dynamics of Mexican illegal immigration have definitely played an effect in hardening sentiments against illegal immigration in the US. If the patterns were like they used to be, there'd be a lot more gorgeous Mexicans around, and yes, they would be treated better. American society is very oriented towards looks and as Oscar Wilde said over a century ago good looking people can get away with anything
If we were blanketed by a bunch of WB's from northern Mexico-----------us Americans would be just as pissed.
If we were blanketed by a bunch of WB's from northern Mexico-----------us Americans would be just as pissed.
Nice try with the 'race card' there, majoun.
When most illegals were from the whiter north and center Americans were far less bothered. Note that Mexican illegals in Texas are still less indigenous than those in California and Texas has the least amount of anti-illegal immigration sentiment of any border state (although cultural differences between TX and CA also play a role)
It's not just because of race - the heavily indigenous south of Mexico has traditionally been treated like crap by the Mexican government, and thus there is often a level of (understandable) anger found amongst Oaxacans and Chiapanecos that's pretty strong and which originates from their getting the shaft from Mexico City. Obviously this isn't true in all cases, but attitudes from within a country can affect perceptions outside of a country.
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