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Old 06-01-2009, 08:33 AM
 
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Mexicos, obviously. However we do have to aknowledge our own governments complicity in allowing a porous border. As usual, the elites of both countries benefit yet the rest of us are left to deal with the mess.

 
Old 06-01-2009, 08:42 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thechicano View Post
Why don't we move this to the Mexican forum and see what they have to say about it.
A perfectly reasonable suggestion. One might say "what business is it of OURS what goes on...or DOESN'T go on...in Mexico, or any other country....and what is THIS thread doing on an 'illegal immigration' forum"?

However, there IS a rationale; Mexico is our next-door neighbor, with a large population, and quite a bit of wealth and natural resources. If condtions within Mexico keep this wealth in the hands of only a few....and if the resultant frustration, hopelessness, and anger drive millions of its citizens to LEAVE.....and if, when they leave, they end up here....madder at US than they are at Mexico...then it certainly IS 'our business' to discuss.

It's also Mexico's business, of course...and it certainly COULD be discussed on the 'Mexico' forum, as well as this one, just as you suggest.
 
Old 06-01-2009, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I don't think this is much of an issue. Mexico's fertility rate is 2.8 kids per household compared to the US's 2.0. Governments that should be more worried about this are in places like:

Yemen: 7.6
Somalia: 7.3
Uganda: 7.1
Afghanistan: 6.9
Angola: 6.8
Malawi: 6.8
Niger: 6.8

source: Fertility Rates (Children per Family)
Actually; according to the CIA World Factbook; the birthrate SoB is down to under 2.4 children per woman-----------replacement level is 2.1.

Also: Mexico's per capita income is ca. $14K a year; so is Argentina's (but that nation perceives itself as being Middle Class)----------yet Mx is essentially poor. Translation: it is Mexico's responsibility to buck up and start taxing the hell out of its (mostly) White elite to help its mostly Indian poor as in better paying jobs, etc.
 
Old 06-01-2009, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by thechicano View Post
Why don't we move this to the Mexican forum and see what they have to say about it.
Why do we need to move the thread? Isnít the topic relevant to illegal immigration?

If I dumped my delinquent son on your doorstep, and begged you to provide him with food, clothing, and shelter; would you have a right to comment on my poor parenting skills, or any of my other shortcomings? Or, would it be none of your business?
 
Old 06-01-2009, 10:39 AM
 
Location: The Wine Country, CA
807 posts, read 1,116,734 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I don't think this is much of an issue. Mexico's fertility rate is 2.8 kids per household compared to the US's 2.0. Governments that should be more worried about this are in places like:

Yemen: 7.6
Somalia: 7.3
Uganda: 7.1
Afghanistan: 6.9
Angola: 6.8
Malawi: 6.8
Niger: 6.8

source: Fertility Rates (Children per Family)
That's right! They tend to come into the U.S. illegally and THEN Drop kids once they are here in order to receive taxpayer subsidized benefits!
 
Old 06-01-2009, 11:38 AM
 
Location: SXSW
640 posts, read 1,514,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Actually; according to the CIA World Factbook; the birthrate SoB is down to under 2.4 children per woman-----------replacement level is 2.1.

Also: Mexico's per capita income is ca. $14K a year; so is Argentina's (but that nation perceives itself as being Middle Class)----------yet Mx is essentially poor. Translation: it is Mexico's responsibility to buck up and start taxing the hell out of its (mostly) White elite to help its mostly Indian poor as in better paying jobs, etc.
Ya but the Mexican elite is FARRR to racist against it's indigenous Indian population for that...
 
Old 06-01-2009, 01:57 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueseas123 View Post
Ya but the Mexican elite is FARRR to racist against it's indigenous Indian population for that...
Thank you confirming what I been saying along about the White supremacy in Hispanic culture.

Just that the 'brown' Latinos will almost never admit to such racism from their White 'raza'.
 
Old 06-01-2009, 02:25 PM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,409,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Why do we need to move the thread? Isnít the topic relevant to illegal immigration?

If I dumped my delinquent son on your doorstep, and begged you to provide him with food, clothing, and shelter; would you have a right to comment on my poor parenting skills, or any of my other shortcomings? Or, would it be none of your business?
What Mexico does is Mexico's problem. If a Mexican crosses our border or immigrated to our country, he or she becomes our problem, our bussiness.

Sure I don't like the corruption in Mexico but that does not give us the right to tell another country how they should run their government. This is an already big problem around the globe. The US does not want to stop policing the world. Let the Mexicans deal with Mexico and let's focus on our country. If it were a partnership with Mexico it would be different. I still don't think it's our business telling them how many children they should have.

It always amazes Mexicans how in the American culture parents can't wait to kick their children out when they reach their 18th birthday. Would it be okay for Mexicans to tell us we should keep our children in our homes, especially during the economic crisis to help all family members financially? I don't think so.
 
Old 06-01-2009, 04:02 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
What Mexico does is Mexico's problem. If a Mexican crosses our border or immigrated to our country, he or she becomes our problem, our bussiness.

Sure I don't like the corruption in Mexico but that does not give us the right to tell another country how they should run their government. This is an already big problem around the globe. The US does not want to stop policing the world. Let the Mexicans deal with Mexico and let's focus on our country. If it were a partnership with Mexico it would be different. I still don't think it's our business telling them how many children they should have.

It always amazes Mexicans how in the American culture parents can't wait to kick their children out when they reach their 18th birthday. Would it be okay for Mexicans to tell us we should keep our children in our homes, especially during the economic crisis to help all family members financially? I don't think so.
Zacatecana....Zacatecana....(sigh)...my dear friend Zacatecana. NO, it would NOT be OK for 'the Mexicans' to tell us (the Americans) how we should..or should not...raise our kids. BUT....(and it's an important 'but')..if 15 MILLION of 'our' unruly kids, who WE failed to 'raise' properly, ended up so angry at us that they reacted by moving illegally into Mexico, and causing social problems there, and costing the Mexicans money....then YES...'the Mexicans' would be perfectly justified in 'scolding us'....and asking us to improve our parenting...so that OUR kids didn't continue to become MEXICO'S problem.

As I said before, if there was no illegal immigrant problem here in the US, what happened in their 'countries of origin' would be 'none of our business'. But when bad conditions...or unfair practices..or abuse by the rich of the poor..causes millions of people to leave THERE and end up HERE...then what happens 'there' becomes OUR business. That's the whole issue...."Mexico", we might say, "YOU stop sending your poor people here...and WE'LL stop telling you how to run your society".
 
Old 06-01-2009, 04:16 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
And ANOTHER thing..I'm not sure I agree with the OP that the lack of a large middle class in Mexico is ANYBODY'S "fault"...rather than that, it's more a case of 'just the way it is'..period. Zacatecana and others have suggested that "what Mexico does, is Mexico's business"...and I agree. For that matter, whose "fault" is it that....(for example), women in the Middle East frequently get treated as 'second class citizens'? Whose "fault" is it that in China, people are frequently jailed for their political beliefs? Whose "fault" that in Africa, ethnic violence often prevents cooperation within societies..or in Europe, a low birth rate means an aging population? Or in Pakistan, large areas of the country are not in control of the government? Whose "fault" is any of this? I don't know..nor do I particularly care. I suppose it's MOSTLY the busness of those who live there.

MY problem is when YOUR 'failure' becomes MY expense. And in the case of Mexico, where the failure of the 'system' has led TEN PERCENT of the population to simply leave, and to move HERE..to MY country....then I get involved. I want to know how to stop the need of people to leave THERE and come HERE, and I have every right to ask questions...because it's my society that's bearing the 'brunt' of this. So as I said, if Mexico wants to treat its people any way it chooses, that's FINE.....but when they start fleeing and coming here...then that's NOT fine. At that point, what THEY do becomes MY business.
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