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Old 06-01-2009, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,645 times
Reputation: 137

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaerin View Post
So basically Kellem, you are for increasing class sizes, increasing esl classes, decreasing the one on one teaching that some kids needs, so a bunch of law breaking illegals or illegals kids can attend American schools? How exactly will this help our AMERICAN students? All I see from this is the ability to pack more voters into schools. This will open a floodgate of illegals imho. Then when our kids are passed over so these illegals can get to school, what do you propose we do then?

Increasing class sizes, increasing esl classes, decreasing the one on one teaching that some kids needs = more job opportunities for teachers, increase in number of colleges, more support for future students coming from alumni donations.

Do I support increasing the number of students going to college, of course I do.

The reason that "All I(you) see from this is the ability to pack more voters into schools" is that your view in education is shortsighted compared to others'.

On the highlighted area, right if someone doesn't go to school is because he doesn't want to. There is a plethora of opportunities for people who want to go to school. Some that target women, others minorities, others first generation college students, others that target merit. There are community colleges, smaller universities. And that is for bachelors, for doctoral degrees is rare to find someone who is actually paying for their own degree.

If your kid fails to go to school is because you failed to educate them properly, not because someone else took their place. Don't kid yourself by thinking that someone else took my kids spot and blame the one who took it, because it was your failure as a parent who caused it, well before the other kid came around.

 
Old 06-01-2009, 01:03 PM
 
Location: America's heartland
346 posts, read 387,049 times
Reputation: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
This is only one of the large amount of things he's doing for education, another one is to attach to the stimulus package a large amount of money to be dedicated for scientific research. This translates into an increase in funding for graduate students, this benefits not only U.S. citizens, but also international students.

And also, the students that this proposal would benefit are not U.S. citizens just yet, but after the proposal is passed, they will be able to became U.S. citizens.

Benefits in education are usually a win-win situation, specially if you are going to benefit from the students going into your workforce after graduation. And according to the President, this is what is likely to happen.

He also posed the questions:

I like how the "deport them all" mentality that is so rampant around these forums was not even an option.
This is an insult to the many immigrants that worked hard, learned English, and followed the law to become legal citizens.

The Dream Act is nothing but another step toward amnesty for migrants that broke the law.

Then again, coddling criminals and giving them special rights is part of the leftist liberal ideology.
 
Old 06-01-2009, 01:06 PM
 
Location: The Wine Country, CA
807 posts, read 1,116,734 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by yikesamillion View Post
Illegal immigrants do not have rights. They should not be receiving any kind of welfare assistance, and their children should not be in our schools. These children cannot even speak English, and if anybody that is non-English speaking should not be in the United States.

The Dream Act is another step in granting amnesty to migrants that have broken the law. When is Obama and all his liberal supporters going to come to grips with reality and actually do something about getting rid of the millions of illegal border-crossers in this country?
Agreed... and I'm a borderline Obama Supporter.. After reading about his support for the Nightmare Act, I'm not so sure.. Obama is slapping Legal Immigrants as well as many people in his own, African-American community in the face by allowing Illegal Aliens to receive college benefits and privileges that many American citizens and Legal Immigrants do NOT receive.. Illegals in most states only have to pay the In State tuition rates to attend Junior College, which is more rights than a US Citizen who moves to another state would receive.. The citizen that moves from say Washington State to California would have to wait ONE YEAR to be able to receive the special In State tuition rates.. Yet, an Illegal Alien is eligible for these rates upon moving to the state..
 
Old 06-01-2009, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Reeds Spring, MO
974 posts, read 1,351,743 times
Reputation: 453
I think your last statement is false and full of opinion. I know of many students that were passed over to fill minority slots. I know of many people that were passed over because they did not play a sport as well as someone else, etc... it happens almost daily. Academics is not as well toted as it used to be. Now it is all about sports at major colleges. Which is a sad sad day imho.
 
Old 06-01-2009, 01:54 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Reading between the lines: it sounds to me that Obama is simply playing politics; and if the illegal alien supporters prove to be a net liability---------he will simply toss 'em under the bus.
 
Old 06-01-2009, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,645 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by bipolarpunk View Post
Agreed... and I'm a borderline Obama Supporter.. After reading about his support for the Nightmare Act, I'm not so sure.. Obama is slapping Legal Immigrants as well as many people in his own, African-American community in the face by allowing Illegal Aliens to receive college benefits and privileges that many American citizens and Legal Immigrants do NOT receive.. Illegals in most states only have to pay the In State tuition rates to attend Junior College, which is more rights than a US Citizen who moves to another state would receive.. The citizen that moves from say Washington State to California would have to wait ONE YEAR to be able to receive the special In State tuition rates.. Yet, an Illegal Alien is eligible for these rates upon moving to the state..
Please provide documentation of the highlighted areas, as far as I know most states (like Texas) will require you to prove residency in the state the same way a U.S. citizen would. I think Texas goes as far as only granting you the on state tuition if you have done the last 3 years in a Texas high school, which is hard to prove id you just moved in.
 
Old 06-01-2009, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,645 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaerin View Post
I think your last statement is false and full of opinion. I know of many students that were passed over to fill minority slots. I know of many people that were passed over because they did not play a sport as well as someone else, etc... it happens almost daily. Academics is not as well toted as it used to be. Now it is all about sports at major colleges. Which is a sad sad day imho.
Claerin, I am assuming that you are referring to my last statement, since there is no quote.

I think is sad that sports 'stars' are given such a high priority by large school. But schools do get a lot of money from sporting events, sometimes the sports department supports itself and contributes to the university.

On the other hand, a student finishing high school can attend a community college, and these are spread out through out the whole country. When I did my first two years, maybe about 5 years ago, I was paying at the rate of $500 a semester, and getting credits that would transfer to a 4 year institution. (That is like $125 for an education, since most semesters are 4 months). If you do well, you can transfer to a big school, if you don't you can try to find another school that will take you, but now you have two years of college, maybe an associates degree and can get a better paying job than with your HS diploma. They have night classes, weekend classes, afternoon classes, some of them with daycares and financial assistance.

I do think that if you are in the U.S. and you are not educated, it is noone's fault but yours and your parents'.
 
Old 06-01-2009, 02:43 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,710,869 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Increasing class sizes, increasing esl classes, decreasing the one on one teaching that some kids needs = more job opportunities for teachers, increase in number of colleges, more support for future students coming from alumni donations.

Do I support increasing the number of students going to college, of course I do.

The reason that "All I(you) see from this is the ability to pack more voters into schools" is that your view in education is shortsighted compared to others'.

On the highlighted area, right if someone doesn't go to school is because he doesn't want to. There is a plethora of opportunities for people who want to go to school. Some that target women, others minorities, others first generation college students, others that target merit. There are community colleges, smaller universities. And that is for bachelors, for doctoral degrees is rare to find someone who is actually paying for their own degree.

If your kid fails to go to school is because you failed to educate them properly, not because someone else took their place. Don't kid yourself by thinking that someone else took my kids spot and blame the one who took it, because it was your failure as a parent who caused it, well before the other kid came around.
Where is the money to pay for all this going to come from? Tell us.

Are you aware (probably not) that alot of the 'one on one' teaching that takes place occurs when a student has a disability and requires an Individual Education Plan? They are entitled to this by law (the Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act) and they should get that extra attention. I'll be damned if I'll support cutting services to an American student with cerebral palsy so you and your ilk can achieve your goal of having US schools overrrun.

Schools don't run on alumni donations. They are largely paid for by property taxes.
 
Old 06-01-2009, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Where laws can be ignored due to political correctness
1,111 posts, read 1,582,143 times
Reputation: 267
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Where is the money to pay for all this going to come from? Tell us.

Are you aware (probably not) that alot of the 'one on one' teaching that takes place occurs when a student has a disability and requires an Individual Education Plan? They are entitled to this by law (the Individuals with Disabilities in Education Act) and they should get that extra attention. I'll be damned if I'll support cutting services to an American student with cerebral palsy so you and your ilk can achieve your goal of having US schools overrrun.

Schools don't run on alumni donations. They are largely paid for by property taxes.
Education is also prone to being one of the first of many programs that are targeted when budget cuts occur.
 
Old 06-01-2009, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Southern NH
2,490 posts, read 4,789,913 times
Reputation: 1668
Rewarding criminal behavior. Not the "change" we were looking for....
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