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Old 06-02-2009, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Texas
470 posts, read 508,048 times
Reputation: 135

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Quote:
Originally Posted by newideas View Post
Hmmm...Sorry I don't agree with you either and I can guarantee you I have a very high education. It doesn't change my mind, but thanks for trying.

Tell me what the solution is then. That hasn't been attempted and failed before.
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Old 06-02-2009, 08:31 PM
 
Location: Northern California
25 posts, read 27,185 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Sorry, New World Order. We already DID compromise. We agreed to an amnesty back in 1986 that was supposed to solve the problem of illegal immigration. Fast forward twenty plus years and now instead of having 3 million illegals, we have at least 12 million. It does not sound to me like our compromise with the other side turned out very well for the average American, does it sound that way to you?
You know what they say, fool me once and shame on you, fool me twice and shame on me.
Agree wholeheartedly! The U.S. is in the worst economic crisis since the Depression, so now is not the time to "compromise" (e.g., give in to lawbreakers).

My home state of California is in dire financial straits, as are most of the others. We're paying out billions of dollars due to illegals. Our prison system is burdened. Poor U.S. citizens are facing welfare virtually shutting down. Health care is in shambles, and I won't even go into the school system. Oh, yeah, we're running out of water on top of everything. The politicians tiptoe around the elephant in the room, accusing those who don't welcome illegal aliens as "racists." That's always a great word to banter around.

Of course, employers looking for cheap labor exploit those not here legally and they should be punished, too.

I wouldn't mind paying twice as much for fresh produce and other items. In the long run, it's less expensive. I'm sick and tired of hearing how bad things would be without illegals in the country because "Americans won't do that type of work." How did we manage before this influx?? The mere fact that illegal immigration is slowing down in California is because there are no jobs, no other reason, like respecting our immigration laws, etc.

Amnesty in 1986 didn't work; it only got worse. No more compromises, please.
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Old 06-02-2009, 08:36 PM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,136 posts, read 21,121,261 times
Reputation: 23163
There is no compromise when laws are being broken. They have no rights in this country except to leave. It was wrong to give them amnesty the first time and it would be wrong to do it again. My husband's job just went to Mexico. Do you think they would let him just walk right in without obeying the laws and take that job from a Mexican. Do you really think they would allow him to go there and work even if he wanted to? What are you thinking?
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Old 06-02-2009, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Texas
470 posts, read 508,048 times
Reputation: 135
Wow. Guess everyone is burned by 86' immigration reform... We are like elephants here... I love it.
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Old 06-02-2009, 08:42 PM
 
14 posts, read 9,186 times
Reputation: 13
Lets face it if people really were willing to pay three times as much we wouldn't have illegals here because there wouldn't be any jobs for them. If we bought from only local stores and helped our local manufacturers and paid for quality items, then we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. People keep coming here because there are jobs they can get. Eliminate the jobs and people won't come here. It's that simple.
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Old 06-02-2009, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Texas
470 posts, read 508,048 times
Reputation: 135
Quote:
Originally Posted by newideas View Post
Lets face it if people really were willing to pay three times as much we wouldn't have illegals here because there wouldn't be any jobs for them. If we bought from only local stores and helped our local manufacturers and paid for quality items, then we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. People keep coming here because there are jobs they can get. Eliminate the jobs and people won't come here. It's that simple.

You are fixated on the idea people only come here for jobs. What about the women that come here to drop anchor babies? What about the fact that in L.A. alone 25% of their welfare, 36 dollars a month, goes to illegals. Jobs?

Only here for jobs eh? I don't consider collecting welfare to be a job...


Straight from www.CIS.org
Quote:
In California, immigrants and their young children comprise nearly 60 percent of the uninsured. Illegals alone are 27 percent. The latest data also show that almost half of those in the state's public schools are either immigrants or the child of an immigrant. We also found that 39 percent of immigrant-headed households in the state used at least one major welfare program, twice the rate for native households.
Because 38 percent of adult immigrants in California have not completed high school, six times the rate for natives, even immigrants who work full time often end up poor, lacking health insurance and accessing social services. Our welfare system, particularly food assistance, and Medicaid/Medi-Cal are geared to help low-income workers with children, which describes a very large share of immigrants.
We can see just how important education is to economic success in two different ways. First, we found that immigrants with a college degree have incomes and use of social services similar to natives. Second, when we look at legal immigrants who have very little education we found that their rates of poverty and welfare use are as high or higher than illegal immigrants. For example, we found that 56 percent of households headed by a legal immigrant who lacked a high school diploma used at least one major welfare program, triple the rate for natives. This is important because an estimated 57 percent of illegal immigrants have not completed high school. Therefore, legalization would not solve the problem of low income and heavy use of social services.
It show that they are not just coming here for the work. The fact that living in poverty here with government assistance is still far better, and EASIER, that surviving in their native states.

Our welfare system makes us an immigrant haven, legal and illegal.
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Old 06-02-2009, 09:09 PM
 
Location: Lake Norman, North Carolina
1,213 posts, read 1,397,397 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by newideas View Post
Lets face it if people really were willing to pay three times as much we wouldn't have illegals here because there wouldn't be any jobs for them. If we bought from only local stores and helped our local manufacturers and paid for quality items, then we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. People keep coming here because there are jobs they can get. Eliminate the jobs and people won't come here. It's that simple.
The solution to end illegal immigration has always been the same. Stop the jobs magnet provided by the scumbag employers of illegals. Do whatever it takes. Start putting scumbag employers of illegals out of business until the problem becomes quickly solved. In the meantime start providing free leaky cattle boat transportation to the southern tip of Mexico for illegals. In no time the boats would be full to overflowing. And in no time at all the only illegals left would of course be the criminal illegals.
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Old 06-02-2009, 09:17 PM
 
14 posts, read 9,186 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by bambam0084 View Post
You are fixated on the idea people only come here for jobs. What about the women that come here to drop anchor babies? What about the fact that in L.A. alone 25% of their welfare, 36 dollars a month, goes to illegals. Jobs?

Only here for jobs eh? I don't consider collecting welfare to be a job...


Straight from www.CIS.org


It show that they are not just coming here for the work. The fact that living in poverty here with government assistance is still far better, and EASIER, that surviving in their native states.

Our welfare system makes us an immigrant haven, legal and illegal.
I'm sorry but I don't believe quotes from a website (www.cis.org) where the front site highlights a book titled "The New Case Against Immigration:Both Legal and Illegal". The so-called "center for immigration studies" is completely biased and doesn't want any immigration of any kind. Where exactly are they getting their statistics from?
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Old 06-02-2009, 09:22 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,708,999 times
Reputation: 1284
Quote:
Originally Posted by newideas View Post
I don't think illegal immigration battles will cease until both sides come to a compromise. How is this idea? I know it's not perfect but it's a not an "all or nothing" solution, which I don't think will work.
I think we should have a work permit system that allows any illegal alien to enter the US, get screen, fingerprinted and put into a system if there is a job for them. If they are already in the country and have a job, then they would be put into this system and given a permit. If they are in the country and do not have a job within a certain time frame, they are sent back to their country of origin and not allowed to re-enter. I also think the current system of becoming a legal resident should be adjusted to reduce all the bureaucratic red tape. If a permit person commits any crime or is unemployed for a period of time, then they are sent back to their country of origin. They would not be allowed to re-enter because they would be in a system with fingerprints. This would bring employers, especially those who use illegal employees to have to pay into the system for employment tax and social security. Let's face it people, illegal aliens wouldn't come here if there was no work or money to be made. I think the boarders should be guarded and patrolled to keep order and a system in place, however it should only be done by trained professional police officers who are educated in this field. There should be fingerprints required for everyone who enters the country, even citizens, and in so would also reduce the rate for citizens who commit crimes or transport drugs. If you are a citizen and have been convicted of a crime you would not be allowed to leave the country, just as those who are convicted of a crime are not allowed to vote.
I think we all need to think in terms of compromise and how to fix the situtation without it being all one side or the other. I think this issue is always so heated because people tend to use it to hide their issues of discrimination (either discrimintation of others or being discriminated against) or personal pain.
As a citizen of this country, I realize that I was born into this situtation by pure luck. I am blessed for that but I or anyone could have easily been born in another country.
1. I have no problem with a temporary work permit/visa system if an employer truly has not been able to fill a job with an American or legal resident. Many countries do this, I have been employed overseas on a work visa. This system works in other countries because both parties adhere to the terms of the agreement- the country allows a worker in for a period of time and when that time is up or the job they were hired for is completed, the worker returns to their home country.
I feel confident in saying that is not how things will work in the US if we adopt a similar program. Far too many of the temporary workers will simply disappear when their visa expires and never leave the US.

2. "If they are in the country and do not have a job within a certain time frame, they are sent back to their country of origin and not allowed to re-enter." How are you going to do this? They will refuse to leave, start shouting about breaking up families, etc., etc.; call NCLR or the ACLU and tie this up in the courts for years. I really do not think they are going to voluntarily leave when told to do so. As for the 'not allowed to re-enter' clause, I am all in favor of that but realistically how are we going to prevent them from returning? We cannot even get a decent border fence built. You know as well as I do that in the unlikely event that they do actually leave, they will be back.

3. How are we going to make ALL employers use the fingerprint system? We have not been able to make them use e-verify. What about US citizens and legal residents who refuse to be fingerprinted? Will they never again be able to hold a job? Why should a law abiding US citizen be forced to submit to fingerprinting by the government?

4. The border is already patrolled by trained professionals. They are called Border Patrol Agents.

5. Requiring that anyone entering the US be fingerprinted is over the top, this is something North Korea would do. I can guarantee you this would put a damper on tourism. I would not visit a country that insisted I be fingerprinted.

6. "If you are a citizen and have been convicted of a crime you would not be allowed to leave the country". This is insane. If someone is arrested for smoking pot when they are 19 they should never be allowed to leave the US?

In all honesty, I do not think you have thought the issue of a solution to illegal immigration through very carefully.
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Old 06-02-2009, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Northern California
25 posts, read 27,185 times
Reputation: 12
How about attrition?

Just as a stool needs four legs to support it, attrition provides a four-legged solution to illegal immigration.

Those legs are:

1. increased border enforcement,

2. increased interior enforcement,

3. sanctions against felonious employers of illegal aliens, and

4. ending government-sponsored benefits and entitlements for illegal aliens.

That’s how you solve the illegal immigration problem, IMHO.
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