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Old 06-02-2009, 11:18 PM
 
Location: Texas
470 posts, read 509,447 times
Reputation: 135

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Quote:
Originally Posted by newideas View Post
I'm sorry but I don't believe quotes from a website (www.cis.org) where the front site highlights a book titled "The New Case Against Immigration:Both Legal and Illegal". The so-called "center for immigration studies" is completely biased and doesn't want any immigration of any kind. Where exactly are they getting their statistics from?
The Census Bureau, the Department of Labor, and the Commission on Immigration Reform to name a few. They more often than not quoted straight from government data. It makes immigration info and statistics VERY easy to find by compiling it in one site.

Just because they never post pro-illegal propaganda doesn't mean their info automatically becomes nonfactual.

Also most of this info can be easily sourced with a quick google search. If you refuse to believe it thats OK, I don't mind. They are the facts tho.

Here are a few more places I found assorted info on these subects...

Heritage.org
GAO.org
pewhispanics.org
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Old 06-02-2009, 11:30 PM
 
14 posts, read 9,213 times
Reputation: 13
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
In all honesty, I do not think you have thought the issue of a solution to illegal immigration through very carefully.
Well, then why don't you explain your idea to end illegal immigration???
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:11 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,721,775 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by newideas View Post
Well, then why don't you explain your idea to end illegal immigration???
Here's a start:

1. Make it very clear that there is NOT going to be another amnesty. There is one path to US citizenship and that is to return to your home country and apply for it, just like everybody else does.

2. No jobs for illegals. E-verify must be brought up to speed. Once it is, require all employers to use it. If an employer is found to be using illegal labor, he or she will face a stiff fine at the minimum. Depending on the severity of the crime, there can be jail time, loss of business license and seizure of assets.

3. No DREAM Act. Go home and apply as a foreign student.

4. No more anchor babies. The 14th Amendment served it's original purpose a long time ago and has been prostituted to serve the interests of illegal aliens. Get rid of it. Anchors who are citizens now are free to return to their parents home country and come back when they are 18.

5. No more 'free' medical care. Show up in an ER and your condition will be medically evaluated, you will be stabilized and as soon as you are able to travel you will be returned to your home country for further treatment. Any necessary means of transport, including air ambulance, will be used. Your home country will be sent the bill. If they do not pay it, that amount will be deducted from and future 'foreign aid' or such.

6. No more free K-12 education for children illegally in the US. Their education is their home country's responsibility, not ours.

7. Cut off all other benefits. If you are not a US citizen or legal resident, you do not get free lunch or prenatal care.

8. Ignore anyone who starts ranting about racism, xenophobia, etc. It is time to either stand our ground or watch our country devolve into yet another Third World failed state.
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:12 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,913,629 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by newideas View Post
I don't think illegal immigration battles will cease until both sides come to a compromise. How is this idea? I know it's not perfect but it's a not an "all or nothing" solution, which I don't think will work.
I think we should have a work permit system that allows any illegal alien to enter the US, get screen, fingerprinted and put into a system if there is a job for them. If they are already in the country and have a job, then they would be put into this system and given a permit. If they are in the country and do not have a job within a certain time frame, they are sent back to their country of origin and not allowed to re-enter. I also think the current system of becoming a legal resident should be adjusted to reduce all the bureaucratic red tape. If a permit person commits any crime or is unemployed for a period of time, then they are sent back to their country of origin. They would not be allowed to re-enter because they would be in a system with fingerprints. This would bring employers, especially those who use illegal employees to have to pay into the system for employment tax and social security. Let's face it people, illegal aliens wouldn't come here if there was no work or money to be made. I think the boarders should be guarded and patrolled to keep order and a system in place, however it should only be done by trained professional police officers who are educated in this field. There should be fingerprints required for everyone who enters the country, even citizens, and in so would also reduce the rate for citizens who commit crimes or transport drugs. If you are a citizen and have been convicted of a crime you would not be allowed to leave the country, just as those who are convicted of a crime are not allowed to vote.
I think we all need to think in terms of compromise and how to fix the situtation without it being all one side or the other. I think this issue is always so heated because people tend to use it to hide their issues of discrimination (either discrimintation of others or being discriminated against) or personal pain.
As a citizen of this country, I realize that I was born into this situtation by pure luck. I am blessed for that but I or anyone could have easily been born in another country.

Here's a compromise.

It's a fact that the USA has the highest number of legal immigrants of any nation in the world. There are many existing programs that allow someone to come here legally.

Not everyone in the world can just pick up and move to the USA because too many people want to come, no way can we take in the over 2 billion impoverished people throughout the world. So -- we must accept that immigration must be fair, orderly, and of course legal.

Nothing stops illegals who have broken the laws from returning home and starting over the right way if they would like to be legal and even become citizens as long as they have no criminal record. Many illegals living here have not been caught, have no deportation orders. They can go home and start over -- the right way this time.
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Old 06-03-2009, 12:16 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,913,629 times
Reputation: 22174
Quote:
Originally Posted by newideas View Post
Well, then why don't you explain your idea to end illegal immigration???
Many illegals will eventually return home. Many packed up and came here actually planning on getting back home again some day. There's no good reason at all to try to change their minds on that.

Leave them illegal even if you don't do some door-to-door round up of them.

They tend to behave better when they realize getting caught doing something wrong can get them deported. Many will tire of living illegally in some foreign country, working as the low-paid servants and decide that living legally in their own land, working their own farms and businesses would be preferrable, and they'll pack up and return home.

Many illegals will never learn English, never assimilate. When they go back home, they are back in their own homeland, they know the language, are comfortable in the culture.
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,701,482 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Here's a start:

1. Make it very clear that there is NOT going to be another amnesty. There is one path to US citizenship and that is to return to your home country and apply for it, just like everybody else does.

2. No jobs for illegals. E-verify must be brought up to speed. Once it is, require all employers to use it. If an employer is found to be using illegal labor, he or she will face a stiff fine at the minimum. Depending on the severity of the crime, there can be jail time, loss of business license and seizure of assets.

3. No DREAM Act. Go home and apply as a foreign student.

4. No more anchor babies. The 14th Amendment served it's original purpose a long time ago and has been prostituted to serve the interests of illegal aliens. Get rid of it. Anchors who are citizens now are free to return to their parents home country and come back when they are 18.

5. No more 'free' medical care. Show up in an ER and your condition will be medically evaluated, you will be stabilized and as soon as you are able to travel you will be returned to your home country for further treatment. Any necessary means of transport, including air ambulance, will be used. Your home country will be sent the bill. If they do not pay it, that amount will be deducted from and future 'foreign aid' or such.

6. No more free K-12 education for children illegally in the US. Their education is their home country's responsibility, not ours.

7. Cut off all other benefits. If you are not a US citizen or legal resident, you do not get free lunch or prenatal care.

8. Ignore anyone who starts ranting about racism, xenophobia, etc. It is time to either stand our ground or watch our country devolve into yet another Third World failed state.
Bravo.

Let me add making English the official language of the USA and mandating that all government business being conducted in that same tongue with the exception of public health/safety issues.
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Old 06-03-2009, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,850,945 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Here's a start:

1. Make it very clear that there is NOT going to be another amnesty. There is one path to US citizenship and that is to return to your home country and apply for it, just like everybody else does.

2. No jobs for illegals. E-verify must be brought up to speed. Once it is, require all employers to use it. If an employer is found to be using illegal labor, he or she will face a stiff fine at the minimum. Depending on the severity of the crime, there can be jail time, loss of business license and seizure of assets.

3. No DREAM Act. Go home and apply as a foreign student.

4. No more anchor babies. The 14th Amendment served it's original purpose a long time ago and has been prostituted to serve the interests of illegal aliens. Get rid of it. Anchors who are citizens now are free to return to their parents home country and come back when they are 18.

5. No more 'free' medical care. Show up in an ER and your condition will be medically evaluated, you will be stabilized and as soon as you are able to travel you will be returned to your home country for further treatment. Any necessary means of transport, including air ambulance, will be used. Your home country will be sent the bill. If they do not pay it, that amount will be deducted from and future 'foreign aid' or such.

6. No more free K-12 education for children illegally in the US. Their education is their home country's responsibility, not ours.

7. Cut off all other benefits. If you are not a US citizen or legal resident, you do not get free lunch or prenatal care.

8. Ignore anyone who starts ranting about racism, xenophobia, etc. It is time to either stand our ground or watch our country devolve into yet another Third World failed state.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Bravo.

Let me add making English the official language of the USA and mandating that all government business being conducted in that same tongue with the exception of public health/safety issues.
Great ideas!

In addition, the home countries will be billed for all expenses resulting from the investigation, arrest, legal defense, court costs, and incarceration of illegal aliens. If they refuse, the U.S. will reduce aid provided to those countries to cover current and projected expenses. If the projected amounts exceed the actual expenses, we will adjust accordingly.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:25 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,977 posts, read 30,230,881 times
Reputation: 17773
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Sorry, New World Order. We already DID compromise. We agreed to an amnesty back in 1986 that was supposed to solve the problem of illegal immigration. Fast forward twenty plus years and now instead of having 3 million illegals, we have at least 12 million. It does not sound to me like our compromise with the other side turned out very well for the average American, does it sound that way to you?
You know what they say, fool me once and shame on you, fool me twice and shame on me.
The last "compromise" ended with a flood of poor peasants hearing about the free wealth being tossed every direction from the US Govt. That is how come we now have 20 million Illegals and people whining that we don't let a flood of people that cannot self sustain, enter.

Sure sounds like a great Nation builder, a flood of illiterate, impoverished peasants cast off from other Countries coming with open mouths and hands.

Third World status here we come.
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:45 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,645,907 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Here's a start:

1. Make it very clear that there is NOT going to be another amnesty. There is one path to US citizenship and that is to return to your home country and apply for it, just like everybody else does.

2. No jobs for illegals. E-verify must be brought up to speed. Once it is, require all employers to use it. If an employer is found to be using illegal labor, he or she will face a stiff fine at the minimum. Depending on the severity of the crime, there can be jail time, loss of business license and seizure of assets.

3. No DREAM Act. Go home and apply as a foreign student.

4. No more anchor babies. The 14th Amendment served it's original purpose a long time ago and has been prostituted to serve the interests of illegal aliens. Get rid of it. Anchors who are citizens now are free to return to their parents home country and come back when they are 18.

5. No more 'free' medical care. Show up in an ER and your condition will be medically evaluated, you will be stabilized and as soon as you are able to travel you will be returned to your home country for further treatment. Any necessary means of transport, including air ambulance, will be used. Your home country will be sent the bill. If they do not pay it, that amount will be deducted from and future 'foreign aid' or such.

6. No more free K-12 education for children illegally in the US. Their education is their home country's responsibility, not ours.

7. Cut off all other benefits. If you are not a US citizen or legal resident, you do not get free lunch or prenatal care.

8. Ignore anyone who starts ranting about racism, xenophobia, etc. It is time to either stand our ground or watch our country devolve into yet another Third World failed state.
GREAT thoughts! Well-considered. Angry as this issue has become, cloaked as it is in layer upon layer of everything from Political Correctness to 'Affluent Guilt' to pseudo-racism and 'faux' xenophobia....if you strip away all the "BS" from the matter, and treat it as it should be treated...(as a matter of national sovereignty, border security, and a huge social burden on the American taxpayer), I can't find a SINGLE point in your list which isn't reasonable, straightforward, or well-warranted. Enough is enough....and if it were NOT the USA we were speaking of....if it were ANY OTHER COUNTRY on EARTH.....none of your proposals would raise an eyebrow....ALL of us would pretty much agree that "These suggestions by (nation 'X') are ITS business, and (nation 'X') has the PERFECT RIGHT to enforce its laws, and lok out for its OWN citizens"..

Now...if we could just 'wrap our minds' around the fact that the USA isn't some 'international Swap Meet', but actually a NATION, owned by its citizens..(like any OTHER nation), then we'll be on our way to seeing the wisdom and the value...and the REASONABLE-ness...of your ideas (above).

The 'demands' upon the largesse of the American taxpayer, and upon this country from the 'World at Large' are NEVER going to end out of some sense of their gratitude, embarrassment, or 'shame'....that's pretty well obvious. Those demands are ONLY going to end when America itself 'puts its foot down' and says 'that's all...the party's over... and there's no more free lunch' ". It's up to us to make this move, not wait around indefinitely until the 'demands' upon us taper off on their own. That will never happen.

Congratulations on your thoughts...And no, there's nothing 'mean', 'unkind', 'racist', or bad in your list...no matter HOW hard we try to assign these qualities to it. Your list is nothing more than plain common sense, and calls for no more than a VERY compassionate society enforcing its own VERY compassionate laws....

Let the "howls of protest" state whatever they want....the fact is that fewer and fewer people are listening any more...
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Old 06-03-2009, 09:53 AM
 
Location: The Wine Country, CA
807 posts, read 1,119,303 times
Reputation: 302
Quote:
Originally Posted by newideas View Post
Lets face it if people really were willing to pay three times as much we wouldn't have illegals here because there wouldn't be any jobs for them. If we bought from only local stores and helped our local manufacturers and paid for quality items, then we wouldn't be in this mess to begin with. People keep coming here because there are jobs they can get. Eliminate the jobs and people won't come here. It's that simple.
While the liberal ideas of "Buy Local" may make sense, the fact is that many Small Businesses employ illegals as well.. In the "town" that I live in in Northern California, the city council had banned all large corporate chain stores from moving into the town.. Which means, downtown is full of small businesses.. Overpriced, small businesses that blatently hire Illegal Aliens..

Many small restaurants and grocery stores are some of the biggest offenders in the hiring of illegal aliens..

Needless to say I refuse to buy from them and would rather take my business 20 miles out of town..
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