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Old 06-04-2009, 10:14 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,204,536 times
Reputation: 823

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[To go by YOUR posts, there's really only ONE participant on this forum who SHOULDN'T stop commentng....YOU. It seems that only YOU have the vast life experience, the worldly understanding, and the objectivity to see ALL of the world's societies and varying cultures for what they are, thanks to your sophistication and ability to 'cut through the crap'. Obviously, none of us here can compete with you, and I for one am not even going to try.

I just see the inane comments you make without ANY knowledge whatsoever. It really is not your fault, you don't ever need to go to these places and deal with them...hence you don't know.

I'll make you a 'deal' then...call it a 'gentleman's agreement'. I'll stop commenting on the Third World (which I've visited extensively, but am obviously incapable of understanding), if YOU in turn will do us ALL the favor of refraining from commenting on the USA....a place YOU are obviously not altogether qualified from seeing objectively, having been born and raised elsewhere, arriving here at a recent time in company with your Mom, and obviously seeing our society not from the standpoint of one who has any history or emotional attachment here, but only sees the USA as a vast "grab bag" that SHOULD be at the total disposal of the rest of the world, 'no questions asked', and a society that SHOULD have the burden of objectively 'understanding' all the hopes and aspirations of ANYONE who shows up here, and without asking ANYTHING in return. Apparently, in your eyes, the USA alone in the world has this 'duty'....while all other societies are free to live as they please, their only duty being to look out for their own members. You have expectations of the USA that simply aren't based in reality.

Have you ever lived in a village? Are your relatives from villages? Have you lived in a slum? Any relatives in a slum? Look, you don't put things in their context, you make broad generalizations, and don't look at root causes. It's hard to take you seriously if you simply say "That's the way they are"
Seeing how I am VERY American (relatives in America's Heartland...also my Grandfather's family have been here sine the 1700s) I know this country very well. You seem to have a limited knowledge of the the Global South. I just don't support the exploitation of the West. I know at the same time I benefit. It's a paradox. But, you seem to think that we are happily prosperous without any rammifications. I just think that we should look at the injustices globally and locally and at least come up with a feasible plan to at least attempt to rectify the situation. All I mentioned in this, and previous threads WAS a comprimise...you seem to think in terms of black and white...good and bad...light and dark...it's not that simple.


So I'll stop talking about what I don't know about (the Third World), and YOU stop commenting on the USA; you simply don't have the history, or the background here, AS YET, to be lecturing all us benighted 'natives' on how we should feel about our own society. You're still a relative newcomer here, and while that gives you the LEGAL right to all our benefits, it doesn't give you the CREDIBILITY to suddenly decide all the rest of us "old timers" (those who've been here a few generations) should all suddenly shut up because you've come along, and you've decided that we don't see things your way. In the 'First World', that's considered just plain RUDE.

Again part of my family has been here for a LONG time (Quakers in Penn since the 1700s. Darling and Freeman are VERY English sounding names. Actually according to family lore between 1650 and 1750 we arrived on the East Coast.) So don't give me that "native" B.S. My father was born in America...his father was born in America...his father...and his father...so on and so forth. So a quarter of me has been here porbably a LOT LONGER than you have. I was born an America citizen...abroad. It's also considered rude to generalize and demean others of different cultures.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 16,219,032 times
Reputation: 3029
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
If one of your Third World denizens relocates to the US and has 10 kids because that is the way things are done in the Third World, the chances are real good that the US taxpayer is going to end up subsidizing them. I am not interested. I behaved responsibly and limited the size of my family and can think of no reason why I should be on the hook for someone who fails to do so. I do not care if that is how things are done in the Third World. If they wish to have huge families that they cannot support, then they need to stay in the Third World.

What are you talking about. We are supposed to subsidize this 'large families are great in the Third World' behavior for two or three generations until they manage to adapt to our smaller family sizes? Forget that. Let them stay where they are.

Not my problem. They need to stay in Mexico and solve their own problems. I am confident other countries will be willing to offer advice if they ever get serious about cleaning up their own act.

If there is a very small plot of land, why on earth are they having mobs of kids. Surely they can recognize the fact that they will not be able to support all of them on the food grown on this small plot of land? What happens when all 12 of their kids grow up? Are the parents going to keep dividing their land into smaller and smaller parcels until nobody has enough land to survive on? Or is there some mysterious program where the amount of land you own magically increases by several acres for each additional kid you birth? In an agrarian society there is only so much arable land. I do not care if this is their culture, it is an extremely shortsighted way of thinking.

I will post on Third World culture if I choose to do so. You do not tell me what to do.
And the church said, "AMEN!"
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 37,411,828 times
Reputation: 3789
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
And the church said, "AMEN!"
Preach on there, girlfriend!
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:23 AM
 
Location: Little Pond Farm
559 posts, read 1,208,951 times
Reputation: 496
Compromise? I will compromise when Birth right citizenship is changed. I will compromise when our hospitals bill countries of origin for medical care that my American Born children can't get or for that matter their American born parents. I will compromise when the illegals stop demanding "rights" that they are not entitled to......

The OP wants a compromise from legal Americans but what do the illegals give back? Don't you think the welcome matt would be a bit more visable if they played by the rules? What exactly is it that you want us to do? Roll over and give a 12th amnesty?
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:24 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,204,536 times
Reputation: 823
If one of your Third World denizens relocates to the US and has 10 kids because that is the way things are done in the Third World, the chances are real good that the US taxpayer is going to end up subsidizing them. I am not interested. I behaved responsibly and limited the size of my family and can think of no reason why I should be on the hook for someone who fails to do so. I do not care if that is how things are done in the Third World. If they wish to have huge families that they cannot support, then they need to stay in the Third World.

That's because there was an economic incentive for you to do so. Again, there needs to be a comprimise between you guys and us. You fail to put it in context. Those with more kids are BETTER off than those with less kids.

What are you talking about. We are supposed to subsidize this 'large families are great in the Third World' behavior for two or three generations until they manage to adapt to our smaller family sizes? Forget that. Let them stay where they are.

Did I mention any of this in that post? No. Please don't infer things that were not mentioned.

Not my problem. They need to stay in Mexico and solve their own problems. I am confident other countries will be willing to offer advice if they ever get serious about cleaning up their own act.

No, they'd rather live in squalor...Really? Don't you think that they are "serious", but there are obstacles like the IMF or the World Bank that make crazy provisions in which actually cause more harm (Jamaica, Venezuala, and Argentina come to mind...their economies tanked after taking the advice of other nations, hence the trepidation of Latin American countries with the IMF).



If there is a very small plot of land, why on earth are they having mobs of kids. Surely they can recognize the fact that they will not be able to support all of them on the food grown on this small plot of land? What happens when all 12 of their kids grow up? Are the parents going to keep dividing their land into smaller and smaller parcels until nobody has enough land to survive on? Or is there some mysterious program where the amount of land you own magically increases by several acres for each additional kid you birth? In an agrarian society there is only so much arable land. I do not care if this is their culture, it is an extremely shortsighted way of thinking.

It is actually very long term, since the kids will most likely move out to urban communities and send money home. There is a large boom in rural to urban migration. Again, this shows a lack of understanding of Third World economics and dynamics.

I will post on Third World culture if I choose to do so. You do not tell me what to do.

Well, at least do some research. Otherwise don't post.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:36 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,819,524 times
Reputation: 1287
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
[To go by YOUR posts, there's really only ONE participant on this forum who SHOULDN'T stop commentng....YOU. It seems that only YOU have the vast life experience, the worldly understanding, and the objectivity to see ALL of the world's societies and varying cultures for what they are, thanks to your sophistication and ability to 'cut through the crap'. Obviously, none of us here can compete with you, and I for one am not even going to try.

I just see the inane comments you make without ANY knowledge whatsoever. It really is not your fault, you don't ever need to go to these places and deal with them...hence you don't know.

I'll make you a 'deal' then...call it a 'gentleman's agreement'. I'll stop commenting on the Third World (which I've visited extensively, but am obviously incapable of understanding), if YOU in turn will do us ALL the favor of refraining from commenting on the USA....a place YOU are obviously not altogether qualified from seeing objectively, having been born and raised elsewhere, arriving here at a recent time in company with your Mom, and obviously seeing our society not from the standpoint of one who has any history or emotional attachment here, but only sees the USA as a vast "grab bag" that SHOULD be at the total disposal of the rest of the world, 'no questions asked', and a society that SHOULD have the burden of objectively 'understanding' all the hopes and aspirations of ANYONE who shows up here, and without asking ANYTHING in return. Apparently, in your eyes, the USA alone in the world has this 'duty'....while all other societies are free to live as they please, their only duty being to look out for their own members. You have expectations of the USA that simply aren't based in reality.

Have you ever lived in a village? Are your relatives from villages? Have you lived in a slum? Any relatives in a slum? Look, you don't put things in their context, you make broad generalizations, and don't look at root causes. It's hard to take you seriously if you simply say "That's the way they are"
Seeing how I am VERY American (relatives in America's Heartland...also my Grandfather's family have been here sine the 1700s) I know this country very well. You seem to have a limited knowledge of the the Global South. I just don't support the exploitation of the West. I know at the same time I benefit. It's a paradox. But, you seem to think that we are happily prosperous without any rammifications. I just think that we should look at the injustices globally and locally and at least come up with a feasible plan to at least attempt to rectify the situation. All I mentioned in this, and previous threads WAS a comprimise...you seem to think in terms of black and white...good and bad...light and dark...it's not that simple.


So I'll stop talking about what I don't know about (the Third World), and YOU stop commenting on the USA; you simply don't have the history, or the background here, AS YET, to be lecturing all us benighted 'natives' on how we should feel about our own society. You're still a relative newcomer here, and while that gives you the LEGAL right to all our benefits, it doesn't give you the CREDIBILITY to suddenly decide all the rest of us "old timers" (those who've been here a few generations) should all suddenly shut up because you've come along, and you've decided that we don't see things your way. In the 'First World', that's considered just plain RUDE.

Again part of my family has been here for a LONG time (Quakers in Penn since the 1700s. Darling and Freeman are VERY English sounding names. Actually according to family lore between 1650 and 1750 we arrived on the East Coast.) So don't give me that "native" B.S. My father was born in America...his father was born in America...his father...and his father...so on and so forth. So a quarter of me has been here porbably a LOT LONGER than you have. I was born an America citizen...abroad. It's also considered rude to generalize and demean others of different cultures.
One fourth of you has been in the US for a very long time? I can do better than that. ALL of me has been in the US for a very long time.

Furthermore, your implication that no one here except you knows anything about life outside the US, this 'you haven't lived in a Third World country so therefore you are in no position to speak on anything about the Third World' is nonsense. I have live in a Third World country, the very country you were born in as a matter of fact. I worked at King Faisal Specialists Hospital in Riyadh so don't tell me that I know nothing about life in a Third World country. Any time you want to go one on one about healthcare, let me know.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:45 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,819,524 times
Reputation: 1287
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
If one of your Third World denizens relocates to the US and has 10 kids because that is the way things are done in the Third World, the chances are real good that the US taxpayer is going to end up subsidizing them. I am not interested. I behaved responsibly and limited the size of my family and can think of no reason why I should be on the hook for someone who fails to do so. I do not care if that is how things are done in the Third World. If they wish to have huge families that they cannot support, then they need to stay in the Third World.

That's because there was an economic incentive for you to do so. Again, there needs to be a comprimise between you guys and us. You fail to put it in context. Those with more kids are BETTER off than those with less kids.
Then they need to STAY in their Third World country where they are better off with 17 kids. Until these Third World countries get their population growth under control they will remain just that- Third World countries. That is their choice.

Quote:
What are you talking about. We are supposed to subsidize this 'large families are great in the Third World' behavior for two or three generations until they manage to adapt to our smaller family sizes? Forget that. Let them stay where they are.

Did I mention any of this in that post? No. Please don't infer things that were not mentioned.

Not my problem. They need to stay in Mexico and solve their own problems. I am confident other countries will be willing to offer advice if they ever get serious about cleaning up their own act.

No, they'd rather live in squalor...Really? Don't you think that they are "serious", but there are obstacles like the IMF or the World Bank that make crazy provisions in which actually cause more harm (Jamaica, Venezuala, and Argentina come to mind...their economies tanked after taking the advice of other nations, hence the trepidation of Latin American countries with the IMF).

If there is a very small plot of land, why on earth are they having mobs of kids. Surely they can recognize the fact that they will not be able to support all of them on the food grown on this small plot of land? What happens when all 12 of their kids grow up? Are the parents going to keep dividing their land into smaller and smaller parcels until nobody has enough land to survive on? Or is there some mysterious program where the amount of land you own magically increases by several acres for each additional kid you birth? In an agrarian society there is only so much arable land. I do not care if this is their culture, it is an extremely shortsighted way of thinking.

It is actually very long term, since the kids will most likely move out to urban communities and send money home. There is a large boom in rural to urban migration. Again, this shows a lack of understanding of Third World economics and dynamics.
So they head for some mega-slum like Lagos or Dhaka? This is progress?

Quote:
I will post on Third World culture if I choose to do so. You do not tell me what to do.

Well, at least do some research. Otherwise don't post.
You are not a moderator and have zero say over who posts on this forum and what they post. I know it will be very difficult, but try to wrap your head around that idea.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:46 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,914,780 times
Reputation: 2989
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
I wouldn't have been as nice.
If you HAD, it wouldn't have made any difference anyway....since neither you, nor I, nor 95% of ANY of the posters on the forum are qualified to even be IN this discussion....

But thanks for your comment anyway...
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:53 AM
 
Location: San Diego
34,983 posts, read 31,998,837 times
Reputation: 19452
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
If you HAD, it wouldn't have made any difference anyway....since neither you, nor I, nor 95% of ANY of the posters on the forum are qualified to even be IN this discussion....

But thanks for your comment anyway...
It just cracks me up that because someone claims to have "lived it" that the rest of the World can't understand what is going on.

I didn't have to live through the freaking bombing of Hiroshima to understand what started the war, why the weapon was used and the horrible after-math that lives on even today.

SHEEESH
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:54 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,204,536 times
Reputation: 823
One fourth of you has been in the US for a very long time? I can do better than that. ALL of me has been in the US for a very long time.

Good for you! Congrats. The quarter has been here since the late 1800s. Not as long. But still pretty darn long.

Furthermore, your implication that no one here except you knows anything about life outside the US, this 'you haven't lived in a Third World country so therefore you are in no position to speak on anything about the Third World' is nonsense. I have live in a Third World country, the very country you were born in as a matter of fact. I worked at King Faisal Specialists Hospital in Riyadh so don't tell me that I know nothing about life in a Third World country. Any time you want to go one on one about healthcare, let me know.

Living in the compounds of Riyadh doesn't count...You know as much as I do that it's completely different in Riyadh as a Westerner...esp. back then. Furthermore, you would know then as well as I do the attitude that came from MANY people in the compounds. Hell, yesterday my brother and I were talking about a superiority complex of Americans in Saudi Arabia. Notably our friend in Jeddah. Even as a little kid it was evident that we were somehow "different". It's not at all the same.

Let me call close family friends in in hospital admin (Sharp San Diego), my cousins who are doctors, my uncle who does public policy, specifically the economics of HEALTH in Africa...then we'll talk.
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