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Old 06-04-2009, 10:54 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
They don't die out. We kill them. And yeah as a part of being an aware person we should acknowledge that much of our current standard of living is because of a system that pays peasant farmers and sweat shop workers barely anything. The prosperity we see in the West, is due to previous and current exploitation. It is what it is...not condoning it, nor bashing America or the West. We do have a moral obligation to try to actually help the situation. We could start here at home by fixing schools in poor regions. This will help ALL poor people regardless of legal status.
OK....we kill them. But it's not just because we're 'bad'. There are a LOT of reasons we kill, exploit, and 'mock the cultures' of our victims...lots of them having to do with out childhoods, our lack of exposure to other cultures, our OWN long-standing fears, prejudices, and oversights. Maybe we're culturally unable to understand the Third World; maybe we feel AFRAID of them; maybe we're the victims of our own ignorance, or maybe we're just not too knowledgeable.

There are MANY reasons we've mistreated the Third World; it's not all just meanness and racism.

Please don't comment on our relations with the Third World until you're able to understand WHY we behave the way we do. What seems like exploitation to YOU, might not be. Maybe we're just innocent clods.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:58 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
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OK....we kill them. But it's not just because we're 'bad'. There are a LOT of reasons we kill, exploit, and 'mock the cultures' of our victims...lots of them having to do with out childhoods, our lack of exposure to other cultures, our OWN long-standing fears, prejudices, and oversights. Maybe we're culturally unable to understand the Third World; maybe we feel AFRAID of them; maybe we're the victims of our own ignorance, or maybe we're just not too knowledgeable.

We want money and we want to prosper by ANY means possible. Whether it be via environmental destruction or economic exploitation...we will get rich or die trying.

There are MANY reasons we've mistreated the Third World; it's not all just meanness and racism.

Economic components I've mentioned have fallen on deaf ears.

Please don't comment on our relations with the Third World until you're able to understand WHY we behave the way we do. What seems like exploitation to YOU, might not be.

Really so not paying living wages is NOT exploitation. Didn't know that. Also unfair trade policies and provisions of lending that have bankrupt countries, not expoloiation. Sorry if I mispercieved poor working environments as expoloitation...of course it's good will.
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Old 06-04-2009, 10:59 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
One fourth of you has been in the US for a very long time? I can do better than that. ALL of me has been in the US for a very long time.

Good for you! Congrats. The quarter has been here since the late 1800s. Not as long. But still pretty darn long.

Furthermore, your implication that no one here except you knows anything about life outside the US, this 'you haven't lived in a Third World country so therefore you are in no position to speak on anything about the Third World' is nonsense. I have live in a Third World country, the very country you were born in as a matter of fact. I worked at King Faisal Specialists Hospital in Riyadh so don't tell me that I know nothing about life in a Third World country. Any time you want to go one on one about healthcare, let me know.

Living in the compounds of Riyadh doesn't count...You know as much as I do that it's completely different in Riyadh as a Westerner...esp. back then. Furthermore, you would know then as well as I do the attitude that came from MANY people in the compounds. Hell, yesterday my brother and I were talking about a superiority complex of Americans in Saudi Arabia. Notably our friend in Jeddah. Even as a little kid it was evident that we were somehow "different". It's not at all the same.

Let me call close family friends in in hospital admin (Sharp San Diego), my cousins who are doctors, my uncle who does public policy, specifically the economics of HEALTH in Africa...then we'll talk.
What compound did you live in? Dharan? Don't you think that we ever left our living quarters and went into the city to shop? Or travelled to other parts of the country? Or visited Saudis in their homes? We were caring for Saudi patients, for Pete's sake. When you are caring for a critically ill patient and their family you get all kinds of exposure to their culture.

Good for you. I don't need to 'call' anybody.
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:00 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
That's because there was an economic incentive for you to do so. Again, there needs to be a comprimise between you guys and us. You fail to put it in context. Those with more kids are BETTER off than those with less kids.

No, they'd rather live in squalor...Really? Don't you think that they are "serious", but there are obstacles like the IMF or the World Bank that make crazy provisions in which actually cause more harm (Jamaica, Venezuala, and Argentina come to mind...their economies tanked after taking the advice of other nations, hence the trepidation of Latin American countries with the IMF).
Would you care to elaborate on the benefits of uneducated, low-wage earners, having large families they cannot possibly support?

If descendants of slaves, who were denied even the most basic semblance of dignity and humanity, could have the fortitude to fight for their rights as citizens of this county, don’t tell me Mexican peasants can’t do the same. If they are not willing to fight, then they deserve to remain in squalor and to be relegated to second-class status. I’m sick of hearing all of the excuses.
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:02 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
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Then they need to STAY in their Third World country where they are better off with 17 kids. Until these Third World countries get their population growth under control they will remain just that- Third World countries. That is their choice.

So no other considerations? That's it? Simply they want to live like this? Geez...

So they head for some mega-slum like Lagos or Dhaka? This is progress?

Did I mention progress? Did I say this was progress? I mentioned this is where people move.

You are not a moderator and have zero say over who posts on this forum and what they post. I know it will be very difficult, but try to wrap your head around that idea.

For your own sake...and the sake of others. Wrap this around YOUR head...don't post things which you don't know...Just as I don't have a great knowledge of quantum physics (hence why I don't talk about it).
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:06 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Then they need to STAY in their Third World country where they are better off with 17 kids. Until these Third World countries get their population growth under control they will remain just that- Third World countries. That is their choice.

So no other considerations? That's it? Simply they want to live like this? Geez...

So they head for some mega-slum like Lagos or Dhaka? This is progress?

Did I mention progress? Did I say this was progress? I mentioned this is where people move.

You are not a moderator and have zero say over who posts on this forum and what they post. I know it will be very difficult, but try to wrap your head around that idea.

For your own sake...and the sake of others. Wrap this around YOUR head...don't post things which you don't know...Just as I don't have a great knowledge of quantum physics (hence why I don't talk about it).
I think you need to start taking your own advice.
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:37 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,295,946 times
Reputation: 1423
Well the way I see it, eventually a compromise will be reached why?

Because the truth is that even if we don't want to accept it, change, impermanence and duality are the constants of this world, yet we humans have the habit of clinging desperately to what is familiar to us and that is a recipe for suffering and unhappiness.

Every country in the world has problems with illegal immigration, even the so called third world countries and this is because the systems that worked in the past are outdated now, and new systems are being created in an slow and painful process, it is always like this.

But in the end you'll see in some centuries, decades perhaps there won't be anymore illegal immigrants because the borders won't exist anymore. concepts such as nationality, culture, ethnicity won't be important anymore and people from those times will think on how primitive their ancestors were, just the way we think when we study history and get to know about the things that happened in the middle ages.

People will be able to live and work wherever they want with few restrictions. And hopefully we'll live to see that day

Last edited by Travelling fella; 06-04-2009 at 11:57 AM..
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:41 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
Reputation: 822
Would you care to elaborate on the benefits of uneducated, low-wage earners, having large families they cannot possibly support?

I already did. Read the previous posts.

If descendants of slaves, who were denied even the most basic semblance of dignity and humanity, could have the fortitude to fight for their rights as citizens of this county, donít tell me Mexican peasants canít do the same. If they are not willing to fight, then they deserve to remain in squalor and to be relegated to second-class status. Iím sick of hearing all of the excuses.

Well, with the support of the same government that oppressed descendants of slaves were able to fight on. Now we just place the third world in slavery. By virtue of being in the US, there was a LARGE advantage, once slavery was abolished. They are fighting, the same ways that others fought for freedom, but it didn't come untill much later. Also why are there disparities between the descendants of slaves and those not from a slave past? Look, the system is not completely fixed...even here in the US.
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:42 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
Reputation: 822
I think you need to start taking your own advice.

Well, then I won't post on quantum physics...but continue here.
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Old 06-04-2009, 11:49 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
Reputation: 822
What compound did you live in? Dharan? Don't you think that we ever left our living quarters and went into the city to shop? Or travelled to other parts of the country? Or visited Saudis in their homes? We were caring for Saudi patients, for Pete's sake. When you are caring for a critically ill patient and their family you get all kinds of exposure to their culture.

I lived in Riyadh at KKIA. You get exposure in clearly a hospital setting...you see them as patients. The question is, would you deal with them prior to them coming to the hospital. Most Americans did not. It's not at all the same. Shopping at the souks is great fun, but again you are an American. Even Saudi's that we befriended say that there is a difference of being Saudi and being an American in Saudi. Americans have an entirely different exsistence.

Good for you. I don't need to 'call' anybody.

Great for you...congrats on being capable at your job. I, however, do research on things I don't know. I would need to do research from respectable sources. Also a little online research from respectable sources. I don't rely on heuristics or place things out of context.
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