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Old 09-03-2009, 01:03 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,077,957 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Who brought the kid to the US illegally, that1guy?
So you don't understand how punishment works? That's what I gather from asking this question.

 
Old 09-03-2009, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Illegal alien students have already had access to 12 years of education, I feel no obligation to provide them with more.
We have been over this many, many times. Their parents placed them in this situation. I did not place them in this situation. My neighbor across the street did not place them in this situation. Their parents brought them to the US knowing full well that what they were doing was illegal. The concept of acting like an adult and accepting responsibility for one's behavior seem to be foreign to many illegal alien parents. Nonetheless, the fact of the matter is that they have no one to blame except themselves for their illegal children's situation and no amount of finger pointing can change that.

So what? 80% of them are from the south. The ones who are from other areas of the world should be returned to their respective homelands.

Oh yes! We are soooooo dehumanizing! They attend our schools for free, get free interpreters and lawyers whenever needed, they can walk into any ER and get thousands of dollars worth of care for which they will never pay a dime, they have activists and ethnic advocacy groups constantly on the prowl to make sure their 'rights' are not infringed upon and anytime things do not go their way all they need do is shout 'racism!' and more often than not they will get what they want. Give me a break!

They can get a college education in their own country and serve as a role model there.

They can contribute to the communities in the country that they are from. (hint; it's not the US)

They can help in inner city and poor rural areas in their own countries.

They can serve to inspire those to pursue their dreams in their own country instead of heading to El Norte to feast at the trough of the Blue Eyed Devils.

It's not wasted money.

Who are you to decide what should be an acceptable school environment for someone else's child?

I am not going to do anything that
a) encourages the ones we have to stay and
b) encourages even more to sneak in.


Why not? For once in their lives, why shouldn't they do something the legal way? You know, the way everybody else is expected to apply for student visas, etc.?

Good for you.

When ever someone commits a crime or breaks a law, they are taking a chance. They might get away with it or they might not. When illegal madre and padre packed up the kids and headed for the US, they took a chance. I suspect alot of them believed that another amnesty was right around the corner, all they had to do was hang out for a few years. However they years have gone by and there has not been another massive shamnesty. Their tactic now is to use their kids as the reason why they must be allowed to stay. Let's say we do grant the DREAMboats their wish and give them citizenship.......................

What is the very first thing the citizens Dreamies are going to do as soon as they can, that1guy?

Answer: They are going to sponsor illegal madre and padre for citizenship. This exactly what madre and padre have been counting on! They will be very well rewarded for breaking the law. And they in turn can sponsor additional illiterate, unskilled family members. If we gain one DREAMie with at least two years of post HS schooling but also get 5 family members who are never going to carry their own weight, to me that is not a very good deal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
What if their children do not become successful? And even if they do, guess what? The amnestied DREAMies are not going to pay all the bills for their parents. If madre and padre never graduated from HS, perhaps never even made it as far as HS in order to dropout, and do not speak English, they will be suited for no type of work except unskilled labor. How many 60+ year olds do your see framing houses or replacing shingles on roofs? Not many. Beyond late middle age, most people simply are no longer able to perform hard manual labor. When padre is no longer able to work painting houses in the 90 degree heat all summer, what is going to happen? He can't even get a job as the greeter at Walmart because he would not be able to tell a customer that the toasters are in aisle 16 in English. He will either go on welfare or disability since he is now a 'citizen', thanks to sponsorship by the DREAMie offspring. American society ends up supporting him. And aforementioned DREAMie is not going to pay for all madre and padre's medical care out of his or her pocket. They will go on Medicaid. When they are 65, they will be eligible for Medicare and SS despite having paid little or nothing into the system. Having them here benefits no one except the DREAMie and it is real questionable as to whether having a DREAMie here benefits anyone other than themselves.

The end result is always the same. The illegals are rewarded for breaking the rules and the rest of us foot the bill.
Excellent posts. Sorry, gotta spread the love.

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Listen to "Paranoia" by Green Day much?
Listen to “Delusional” by Quicksand much?
 
Old 09-03-2009, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
I'd like to continue the converstation, but I can't untill you understand differences in crime. See, what's amazing is that you (and others) have this giant logical flaw in your analogies. That is one of the downfalls of America; we support policies based on unsound logic.
No, your “logic” is flawed if you can’t comprehend how the children of incarcerated U.S. criminals do in fact ‘suffer’ due to the behavior of their parents. Or, are illegal alien children only capable of feeling pain, and worthy of your compassion?
 
Old 09-03-2009, 01:29 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,710,869 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Collective View Post
Actually, under this case study, the kid was born in US soil.
OK, OK........ the title of this thread is what?

Quote:
Time for undocumented students' DREAM to be realized

Quote:
Endangered are the thousands of graduates from the state's high schools, colleges and universities who are not in the United States legally. The federal Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act provides a path to legal residency for these students brought to the U.S. as children and who have good moral character if they attend two years of college or enlist in the military
No DREAMies are not US citizens. Try reading the first post. Does that make sense to you?
 
Old 09-03-2009, 01:31 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,710,869 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
So you don't understand how punishment works? That's what I gather from asking this question.
Stop trying to change the subject. Answer the question.
 
Old 09-03-2009, 03:23 PM
 
7,352 posts, read 8,992,238 times
Reputation: 1879
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Why does immigration need to stop for 10 years? So have we reached a Malthusian catastrophe? (The answer is no).
Sorry, you're wrong. The population of the U.S. has already surpassed carrying capacity for the land base. Common knowledge.
 
Old 09-03-2009, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Some Beach... Somewhere...
4,572 posts, read 3,830,907 times
Reputation: 4738
For that1guy's benefit. Note that by definition, no PUNISHMENT is directed at the illegal children. What they experience is a CONSEQUENCE of their parents' actions.




pun⋅ish⋅ment /ˈpʌnɪʃmənt/ [puhn-ish-muhnt]


–noun

1.the act of punishing.
2.the fact of being punished, as for an offense or fault.
3.a penalty inflicted for an offense, fault, etc.
4.severe handling or treatment.

Origin:
1250–1300; ME punysshement < AF punisement, OF punissement. See punish, -ment


con⋅se⋅quence /ˈkɒnsɪˌkwɛns, -kwəns/ [kon-si-kwens, -kwuhns]
–noun

1.the effect, result, or outcome of something occurring earlier: The accident was the consequence of reckless driving.
2.an act or instance of following something as an effect, result, or outcome.
3.the conclusion reached by a line of reasoning; inference.
4.importance or significance: a matter of no consequence.
5.importance in rank or position; distinction: a man of great consequence in art.

—Idioms

6.in consequence, consequently; as a result; hence: He withdrew from the world, and in consequence was forgotten.
7.in consequence of, as a result of; on account of: A trial was held in consequence of the investigation.
Origin:
1350–1400; ME (< AF) < L consequentia. See consequent, -ence

Synonyms:
1. outcome, issue, upshot, sequel.
 
Old 09-03-2009, 07:06 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,077,957 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Excellent posts. Sorry, gotta spread the love.



Listen to “Delusional” by Quicksand much?
No. Apparently, you do. Well, to each their own...untill it comes down to shipping containers and military style walls and an uneducated underclass.
 
Old 09-03-2009, 07:08 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,077,957 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Workin_Hard View Post
For that1guy's benefit. Note that by definition, no PUNISHMENT is directed at the illegal children. What they experience is a CONSEQUENCE of their parents' actions.




pun⋅ish⋅ment /ˈpʌnɪʃmənt/ [puhn-ish-muhnt]


–noun

1.the act of punishing.
2.the fact of being punished, as for an offense or fault.
3.a penalty inflicted for an offense, fault, etc.
4.severe handling or treatment.

Origin:
1250–1300; ME punysshement < AF punisement, OF punissement. See punish, -ment


con⋅se⋅quence /ˈkɒnsɪˌkwɛns, -kwəns/ [kon-si-kwens, -kwuhns]
–noun

1.the effect, result, or outcome of something occurring earlier: The accident was the consequence of reckless driving.
2.an act or instance of following something as an effect, result, or outcome.
3.the conclusion reached by a line of reasoning; inference.
4.importance or significance: a matter of no consequence.
5.importance in rank or position; distinction: a man of great consequence in art.

—Idioms

6.in consequence, consequently; as a result; hence: He withdrew from the world, and in consequence was forgotten.
7.in consequence of, as a result of; on account of: A trial was held in consequence of the investigation.
Origin:
1350–1400; ME (< AF) < L consequentia. See consequent, -ence

Synonyms:
1. outcome, issue, upshot, sequel.
A punishment is a type of consequence. The punisher supplies said consequence to the punishee. How hard is it to understand that the gov't punishes the children for the actions of their parents? The action was taken from the parents. The outcome is that they suffer the consquences (a punishment from the gov't).
 
Old 09-03-2009, 07:09 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,077,957 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
Sorry, you're wrong. The population of the U.S. has already surpassed carrying capacity for the land base. Common knowledge.
I asked a question...how can I be wrong when I'm asking YOUR viewpoint?
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