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Old 09-02-2009, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Again...so what? As long as their children are supporting them, it really doesn't matter. If they are sponsored by the children, I feel that is a very different situation than when they originally came here. If their children do become successful, then most likely the children will aid their parents, thus not being a drain on the system.
Onder one condition: that said illegal alien parents are willing to risk going to prison for the crimes committed that would subject an American to the same charges i.e. ID theft, false SSN's, non reporting of income, etc.

 
Old 09-02-2009, 01:22 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Well that post was reworked wasn't it.
No its not a punishment, it is the consequences of the parents actions.
If my father robbed a bank and used the money to buy a nice house, we would not be allowed to keep the house when he was caught.
Are we being punished? No
We owe these Illegal (Aliens) nothing. However we do owe legal citizens what our constitution promises.
We can not afford the Dream act. Not when we are borrowing from China to pay our bills.
Yes it is sad when a child is impacted by their parents bad decision. The anger should be directed at said parents.


It's not the same. Your rights of property, etc. were not taken away. The literal money that stolen from others was "given" (if you will...we know it's more complicated than the simple transfer) back to the rightful owner. Nobody owns citizenship. This is one of the reasons why the analogy fails. Citizenship is construct. It changes on a whim. Thus, there is really little moral basis. Theft is less fluid. If you steal money, you stole property of another person.

The child is being punished. The child is giving back a thing that (s)he did not even have a say...a thing that is fluid and really is dependent on political whim...which affects h(is)(er) entire life. But, to you it's of no significance since a law was broken and now a consequence (punishment) will occur.

I have watched my school taxes jump and in part due to having to supply english to spanish translators. For students that should not be here in the first place.

Not because of bad investment and poor planning? I'm for certain that the few English translators don't account for the bulk of the rise in taxes. Maybe it's also because there is a HUGE decline in revenue in your district (we are in a major downturn).

The children of people who are not paying school taxes or contributing to the system.

The majority rent. Thus, the property owners pay property taxes. That contributes to school budgets.

So no I do not agree that we are punishing anyone. Nor do I think that we owe them a free pass.

Well, a consequence that adversely affects a person is a punishment. And frankly if they work hard...it's not a free pass.

To many american kids are missing opprotunities and have no such free pass waiting for them.

Which is why we need to fix the entire system. Such an emphasis on education will obviously have an impact on nationals and citizens.

Take care of our own first and always.

If they live here, and they are a part of our society, they are also ours.
Some days last longer than others...This day, by the way, moved too fast...
 
Old 09-02-2009, 01:24 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,402,860 times
Reputation: 47450
yes it is but in your own country please.
btw you wont have a monster student loan in mexico either.
 
Old 09-02-2009, 01:26 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,076,921 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Onder one condition: that said illegal alien parents are willing to risk going to prison for the crimes committed that would subject an American to the same charges i.e. ID theft, false SSN's, non reporting of income, etc.
Only if you stop speeding, if all people in LA water their lawns on Tues. and Thurs. only, if the people in my hometown all have green lawns, if there were no jay-walking...

Sorry, many Americans don't report income. Many illegal immigrants have LEGAL ITIN, and frankly, the illegal immigrants that do this have a MUCH different motivation.
 
Old 09-02-2009, 01:27 PM
 
Location: Over the Rainbow...
5,963 posts, read 10,494,121 times
Reputation: 3135
Quote:
Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok View Post
Nope. It's not time. I could care less what their dreams are. They need to be home where they belong. Try to fulfill the dreams there.
I agree with you 100%.
 
Old 09-02-2009, 02:15 PM
 
45 posts, read 47,504 times
Reputation: 18
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Some days last longer than others...This day, by the way, moved too fast...
You make excellent arguments that go way over the head of many people here. You're ideas are interesting.
 
Old 09-02-2009, 03:03 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Again...so what? As long as their children are supporting them, it really doesn't matter. If they are sponsored by the children, I feel that is a very different situation than when they originally came here. If their children do become successful, then most likely the children will aid their parents, thus not being a drain on the system.
What if their children do not become successful? And even if they do, guess what? The amnestied DREAMies are not going to pay all the bills for their parents. If madre and padre never graduated from HS, perhaps never even made it as far as HS in order to dropout, and do not speak English, they will be suited for no type of work except unskilled labor. How many 60+ year olds do your see framing houses or replacing shingles on roofs? Not many. Beyond late middle age, most people simply are no longer able to perform hard manual labor. When padre is no longer able to work painting houses in the 90 degree heat all summer, what is going to happen? He can't even get a job as the greeter at Walmart because he would not be able to tell a customer that the toasters are in aisle 16 in English. He will either go on welfare or disability since he is now a 'citizen', thanks to sponsorship by the DREAMie offspring. American society ends up supporting him. And aforementioned DREAMie is not going to pay for all madre and padre's medical care out of his or her pocket. They will go on Medicaid. When they are 65, they will be eligible for Medicare and SS despite having paid little or nothing into the system. Having them here benefits no one except the DREAMie and it is real questionable as to whether having a DREAMie here benefits anyone other than themselves.

The end result is always the same. The illegals are rewarded for breaking the rules and the rest of us foot the bill.
 
Old 09-02-2009, 03:38 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
Reputation: 17688
There is nothing stopping the entire family from repatriating. If they want to be angry, they can be angry at their criminal Parents.
 
Old 09-02-2009, 03:45 PM
 
7,352 posts, read 8,991,144 times
Reputation: 1879
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Right, not broken. When my mom was stuck almost unable to go back to Saudi Arabia because her green card expired due to incomptence on the part of the US gov't...not once, but TWICE, that's a broken system. When my friend applied for citizenship, and they lost her paperwork for two years...that's a broken system. The system doesn't make sense. It doesn't follow immigration patterns, and is also based on profiling. It also is too unwieldy (too many mistakes happen).

Why not create a logical system that realizes that immigration is going to happen outside of the system. A system that, rather than deters illegal immigration, supports legal immigration. A system that is more immigrant friendly. Easier times obtaining student visas, a guest worker program, an amnesty program, acts that realize that there are those that were too young to even have a say in their legal status.

ALL immigration needs to stop for 10 years. Contrary to your desires, the U.S. doesn't OWE anybody immigration. Furthermore, the land base has already surpassed carry capacity. There are not enough resources for even more people.
 
Old 09-02-2009, 03:50 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
Reputation: 17688
Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
ALL immigration needs to stop for 10 years. Contrary to your desires, the U.S. doesn't OWE anybody immigration. Furthermore, the land base has already surpassed carry capacity. There are not enough resources for even more people.
Can you imagine if we suddenly just opened the border to anyone? What would they do for jobs? We would need thousands of tax payer funded Hospitals, schools and other social services that use tax base as their revenue and it would be impossible to correct the madness. We would eventually become the mess they are all fleeing now.
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