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Old 06-05-2009, 06:33 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,101,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
This is a critque you are perhaps uniquely unqualified to be making at all...since to my knowledge, you insist that all cultures are equally 'good' and beneficial, forward-looking, and adaptable. Without getting into another 'tiff' with you, I'll simply close by saying if you can't even agree cultures are 'different', then it's pointless for you to chide the rest of us.

And no, cultures CAN'T be "all different, and each unique, but NONE are bad, and ALL are good". That's simply a philosophical absurdity. Cultures are 'moving in to the USA, rapidly....and bringing constant change...but it's ALL good?....and NONE of it is bad?...and in any case, those who live here have no right to criticize ANY of it?" That's not a discussion; that's a proclamation.

And this is quite ASIDE from any mention of 'illegality'...which is, after all, what this forum is about.

I KNOW I'm wrong and misguided..but I have plenty of company...right?

Again, cultures share A LOT of similarities. All main cultures (sub cultures and counter cultures not included, though they may have some of these tenents). Work (from Africa to Asia, to Europe, to Latin America etc...all cultures have a work ethic). Education (be it history or formal, there is a desire to educate the young in all socieites). Cooperation.

So with that said, being human is the biggest trait between the different cultures. Sounds self evident when you read it, but you seem to write these twisted analyses of how "Third World" cultures can't cope in the western world. Citing examples of lack of societal guilt (which is not true whatsoever...hence religions, to absolve guilt and do right to fellow man and diety), the possibility of complete subordination of women (which, unfortunately, happen(s)(ed) in all cultures...even our own), reckless criminality (this one really bugs me, it seems as if people believe that the Third World has no morals. Geez).

All cultures aren't equal, but they all share A LOT of commonalities, because they all stem from the same species. All cultures do strive for one thing, betterment.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:37 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,101,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Cultural superiority? If I am invited to a party I abide by the ground work already present. I don't expect anyone to speak to me in a certain tongue or make any demands at all because I am a guest. Dual cultures are good, many individual cultures? Not so good for the Nation as a whole.
Me? I prefer to strengthen our existing Culture. By backing and advancing that Culture it makes it stronger. United we stand, divided we fall.

Where have I heard that before
Nazi Germany had the same belief as well. Many cultures have ALWAYS existed in this nation. From its inception, it was a melting pot of various cultures and tongues. Even prior to colonialism, there were MANY different cultures. America has ALWAYS been a multiculutral society. In the 1700s an English traveler was shocked at the number of languages that were spoken in New York. Dutch, German, English, French, Spanish...This was prior to our independence. It seemed to work out okay.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:41 PM
 
Location: San Diego
33,123 posts, read 30,371,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Nazi Germany had the same belief as well. Many cultures have ALWAYS existed in this nation. From its inception, it was a melting pot of various cultures and tongues. Even prior to colonialism, there were MANY different cultures. America has ALWAYS been a multiculutral society. In the 1700s an English traveler was shocked at the number of languages that were spoken in New York. Dutch, German, English, French, Spanish...This was prior to our independence. It seemed to work out okay.
Oh here we go, the Nazis. A melting pot is not even close to what Ilegals think is possible here or we'd see assimilation.

I bet you'd think different if the Illegals were Germans speaking German.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:42 PM
 
4,323 posts, read 7,950,348 times
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Yes, just because one is anti-illegal immigration doesn't mean one is racist.

You do have to be careful about associating with the right groups; some anti-illegal immigration groups have a White nationalist element. For instance the Southern Poverty Law Center criticizes the groups which have White nationalist elements or seemingly have White nationalist motives.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:43 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,101,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerCaliforniaGirl View Post
I left California because of the rampant illegal immigration into my community and the horrendous changes it caused. They were not "suspected" illegals. They were illegals, period.

I don't know if poverty and lack of education can actually be defined as a "culture". Rather, it's more of a "circumstance". The circumstances that illegals bring to U.S. cities is mostly degradation of communities, crime and intense need for free social services. And yes, I object to that. But that does not, in any way whatsoever, make me a racist or anti-Mexican culture.
You even stated you truly did not know for a certain fact that they were ALL illegal. You said you had good reason to believe.

Spring Valley has an income higher than the state average, and a poverty rate lower than the national average. Crime rates are roughly lower than average. You cited music and chickens (which I doubt that there were that many...I lived near an industrial chicken coup and cattle ranches I've seen what a lot of chickens look like). So again, it's fine if you don't like Hispanic culture...it's your perogative. I feel that it's a little of an overreatction, well hey, you found a better place for you without "illegals" or possible "illegals", and that's what it's all about.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:44 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,101,445 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Oh here we go, the Nazis. A melting pot is not even close to what Ilegals think is possible here or we'd see assimilation.

I bet you'd think different if the Illegals were Germans speaking German.
I'm part German dumb****. My great grandmother (on my dad's mom side) spoke Yiddish and German.
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Old 06-05-2009, 06:46 PM
 
Location: San Diego
33,123 posts, read 30,371,794 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uhohhh View Post
I'm sure you'd be the same toward Germans if this was over a century ago. History repeats itself.
The Germans "didn't" want to assimilate either. We saw how terrible that turned out. Now we have to eat SAUERKRAUT on our WEINERSCHNITZEL while listening to Mexican POLKA
Ya, I can see the ovens being built right now Run for your lives Citizens.
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:01 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,677,111 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Nazi Germany had the same belief as well. Many cultures have ALWAYS existed in this nation. From its inception, it was a melting pot of various cultures and tongues. Even prior to colonialism, there were MANY different cultures. America has ALWAYS been a multiculutral society. In the 1700s an English traveler was shocked at the number of languages that were spoken in New York. Dutch, German, English, French, Spanish...This was prior to our independence. It seemed to work out okay.
Precisely right; practically my own posts, word-for-word, on many occasions, on this very forum. We've always managed to blend MANY cultures into a viable society, and it worked well, over the years; and in so doing, we managed to tame a wilderness, survive a depression, win TWO World Wars, and create the world's leading industrial power...all of us, working together, not so much 'celebrating our differences', but celebrating our common aspirations and our similarities.

All of which causes one to wonder why, at this late date, in the past two decades, we're suddenly admonished that we must now "strive" for multiculturalism; that we must 'seek it out', 'promote it', and 'emphasize' it. We must spend money and set aside resources to make sure we're sufficiently multicultural in all facets of life.

This is my whole reason for doubt. If, as you say, we're a 'multicultural society...and always HAVE been', then why must we seek, promote, cultivate, and 'push' that which we ALREADY HAVE? If we've ALWAYS taken the best from around the world, brought them here, and they've 'become Americans', then why the sudden need for 'multiculturalism'? Is it because we NOW propose to take our immigrants in, let them 'flourish', and NOT become Americans?..or do we propose to have them come in, live any way they wish, by any rules they see fit, and simply CALL THEMSELVES Americans? What's with this sudden interest in multiculturalism, if indeed it's what we've always had?

I don't get it. Someone's being dishonest here, or someone's simply overlooking something..but at any rate, how do you make a multicultural nation multicultural? Isn't that a contradiction? Is this some convoluted, roundabout, values-neutral attempt to include illegal immigrants into our 'fold'..to try to convince ourselves that being illegal is 'just another cultural attribute' like cuisine, art, or music? Just asking...this IS, after all, the "illegal immigration" forum..
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:03 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,937,641 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Precisely right; practically my own posts, word-for-word, on many occasions, on this very forum. We've always managed to blend MANY cultures into a viable society, and it worked well, over the years; and in so doing, we managed to tame a wilderness, survive a depression, win TWO World Wars, and create the world's leading industrial power.

All of which causes one to wonder why, at this late date, in the past two decades, we're suddenly admonished that we must "strive" for multiculturalism; that we must 'seek it out', 'promote it', and 'emphasize' it. We must spend money and set aside resources to make sure we're sufficiently multicultural in all facets of life.

This is my whole reason for doubt. If, as you say, we're a 'multicultural society...and always HAVE been', then why must we seek, promote, cultivate, and 'push' that which we ALREADY HAVE? If we've ALWAYS taken the best from around the world, brought them here, and they've 'become Americans', then why the sudden need for 'multiculturalism'? Is it because we NOW propose to take our immigrants in, let them 'flourish', and NOT become Americans?..or do we propose to have them come in, live any way they wish, and simply CALL THEMSELVES Americans? What's with this sudden interest in multiculturalism, if indeed it's what we've always had?

I don't get it. Someone's being dishonest here, or someone's simply oveelooking something..but at any rate, how do you make a multicultural nation multicultural? Isn't that a contradiction?
Bravo! Another fabulous post
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Old 06-05-2009, 07:15 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,101,445 times
Reputation: 822
Precisely right; practically my own posts, word-for-word, on many occasions, on this very forum. We've always managed to blend MANY cultures into a viable society, and it worked well, over the years; and in so doing, we managed to tame a wilderness, survive a depression, win TWO World Wars, and create the world's leading industrial power.

All of which causes one to wonder why, at this late date, in the past two decades, we're suddenly admonished that we must "strive" for multiculturalism; that we must 'seek it out', 'promote it', and 'emphasize' it. We must spend money and set aside resources to make sure we're sufficiently multicultural in all facets of life.

Because we did go through periods of extreme nationalism (When the Irish immigrated here, the Know Nothing movement of the 1850s, operation *******...even segregation). There was an ideal of "American". This ideal is at the heart of the immigration debate. So people need to reaffirm the fact that it's okay to not be this ideal (apple pie, suburbia, baseball, prom, etc.).

In recent memory we see that television does not really portray American society too well (where are the Hispanics, Asians, and Blacks...I live in SoCal, I KNOW plenty of minorities looking for a gig...even Asians). We see that you are treated better if you have a certain set of cultural identifiers (A Black guy wearing tighter fighting clothing is going to be treated better than a Black guy wearing more urban attire).

While we are multicultural, that doesn't mean that there is no inequality and we should stop striving for multicultural acceptance.

This is my whole reason for doubt. If, as you say, we're a 'multicultural society...and always HAVE been', then why must we seek, promote, cultivate, and 'push' that which we ALREADY HAVE? If we've ALWAYS taken the best from around the world, brought them here, and they've 'become Americans', then why the sudden need for 'multiculturalism'? Is it because we NOW propose to take our immigrants in, let them 'flourish', and NOT become Americans?..or do we propose to have them come in, live any way they wish, and simply CALL THEMSELVES Americans? What's with this sudden interest in multiculturalism, if indeed it's what we've always had?

Assimilation comes to all immigrants. With that said, we allow immigrants to "flourish" since if we break them down, we have seen that doesn't work. It's better to have ESL classes, and forms in Spanish...instead of sink or swim. I think that you can have cultural retention and be American. A perfect example is the Indian-American community. Very successful, yet as a group retain many cultural ties. So it is possible to be a multicultural person in a multicultural society.

I don't get it. Someone's being dishonest here, or someone's simply oveelooking something..but at any rate, how do you make a multicultural nation multicultural? Isn't that a contradiction?

What's not to get? You have a nation that is multicultural. Many in said nation despise or wish it would lessen. So others in said nation have to prove to that they (the others) are not criminals, or any other stereotype imposed on them.
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