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Old 06-07-2009, 10:40 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,042,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
That makes sense Camping and no I was not calling Americans lazy but I do think that most Americans rather look for blue collar jobs than work at a meat packing company, leaving those jobs open for anyone without skills to work there.

I am in full support of it closing if that is the case (filth and meth lab). That doesnt mean that other raided factories will be sucessful in staying open.
I don't know about that. My bil has worked in packing houses all over the country for twenty years. Rough nasty work, sure - but if you were born and raised in farm/ranching country and are a hunter it is not hard to get used to. And I say this as a vegetarian

So while say people in LA or NYC or Miami probably would not have what it takes to work in a packing house no matter the pay, the people that actually live in these areas have no real problem with it.

What they do have a problem with is crap pay. As I said - $5 an hour will get you nowhere fast even in a small town in Iowa. And packing house work is dirty and dangerous. What it comes down to is the corporations. Are they willing to make a good profit by hiring citizens and legal immigrants or do they want to make a great profit by hiring illegals? Too often we see greed winning out. Those factories/houses that leave the state are doing so out of greed. The only way to combat that is to start fining and yes, jailing those businesses that refuse to hire legal immigrants and citizens. It is all about supply and demand. When businesses learn that by cutting corners and hiring illegals at low wages they are not reaping any financial benefit they will stop the practice. And when they stop hiring a lot of the illegal immigration problem will also be solved.

Unfortunately that scenario prediposes that our elected officials from small town mayors/sheriffs/councils up to states governors aren't on the take. Personally, I think that a lot of elected officials are getting their palms greased to look the other way and that is what should be fully investigated.
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Old 06-07-2009, 11:54 PM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,414,165 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
I don't know about that. My bil has worked in packing houses all over the country for twenty years. Rough nasty work, sure - but if you were born and raised in farm/ranching country and are a hunter it is not hard to get used to. And I say this as a vegetarian

So while say people in LA or NYC or Miami probably would not have what it takes to work in a packing house no matter the pay, the people that actually live in these areas have no real problem with it.

What they do have a problem with is crap pay. As I said - $5 an hour will get you nowhere fast even in a small town in Iowa. And packing house work is dirty and dangerous. What it comes down to is the corporations. Are they willing to make a good profit by hiring citizens and legal immigrants or do they want to make a great profit by hiring illegals? Too often we see greed winning out. Those factories/houses that leave the state are doing so out of greed. The only way to combat that is to start fining and yes, jailing those businesses that refuse to hire legal immigrants and citizens. It is all about supply and demand. When businesses learn that by cutting corners and hiring illegals at low wages they are not reaping any financial benefit they will stop the practice. And when they stop hiring a lot of the illegal immigration problem will also be solved.

Unfortunately that scenario prediposes that our elected officials from small town mayors/sheriffs/councils up to states governors aren't on the take. Personally, I think that a lot of elected officials are getting their palms greased to look the other way and that is what should be fully investigated.
That is really eye opening and thank you for your imput. I have a hard time believing that if you give minimum wage at a meat packing company, they will have many applicants but we will see. I'm sure, it will not be the last company to get raided.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:35 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,414,165 times
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Quote:
In a small community center of the village of San Miguel Duenas outside of the Guatemalan tourist town of Antigua, dozens of men and women who had been deported after a raid on the kosher meat factory in Iowa, gathered to recount their treatment at the hands of U.S. immigration officials.
They described being held for as long as five months. They said they were given negligible access to lawyers and were unable to communicate with their families. Some said they were stripped naked. According to the Washington-based Guatemalan Human Rights Commission/USA, one woman was separated from her one-year-old child during her imprisonment. When she was released, she found her baby had been adopted by an American couple.
Workers told me they were hit by ICE officials, and when describing the abuse, which was not only physical but psychological, a rather tough looking guy with a mustache and gold chain broke down in front of me. “I came back with more scars than benefits,” he said.
I'm ashamed to read all the abuse these people encountred during their deportation. I hope these ICE agents get fired. We need to hire good ICE agents that will do their job but at the same time will treat people like humans.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:36 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,414,165 times
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The above quote was taken from this link:

Guatemalans shed tears of frustration over U.S. immigration | Worldfocus
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Old 06-08-2009, 05:06 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,904,513 times
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Quote:
Unemployment (Household Survey Data)
Quote:

The number of unemployed persons increased by 787,000 to 14.5 million
in May, and the unemployment rate rose to 9.4 percent. Since the start
of the recession in December 2007, the number of unemployed persons has
risen by 7.0 million, and the unemployment rate has grown by 4.5 percent-
age points. (See table A-1.)

Unemployment rates rose in May for adult men (9.8 percent), adult
women (7.5 percent), whites (8.6 percent), and Hispanics (12.7 percent).
The jobless rates for teenagers (22.7 percent) and blacks (14.9 percent)
were little changed over the month. The unemployment rate for Asians was
6.7 percent in May, not seasonally adjusted, up from 3.8 percent a year
earlier. (See tables A-1, A-2, and A-3.)

Among the unemployed, the number of job losers and persons who completed
temporary jobs rose by 732,000 in May to 9.5 million.
Employment Situation Summary

DREAM on . . . .Americans will be lining up for those jobs.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:31 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,042,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
That is really eye opening and thank you for your imput. I have a hard time believing that if you give minimum wage at a meat packing company, they will have many applicants but we will see. I'm sure, it will not be the last company to get raided.
Only few jobs at packing houses pay minimum wage. As I said - it is dangerous work. A neighbor of mine got his arm caught in a grinder when he was still a teen -- needless to say it was amputated.

I should also add that not all packing houses employ illegal labor. There are many that employ legal immigrants and citizens...it can be done and the company can still make a healthy profit. The Hormel plant in western NE comes to mind.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:35 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,042,756 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
I'm ashamed to read all the abuse these people encountred during their deportation. I hope these ICE agents get fired. We need to hire good ICE agents that will do their job but at the same time will treat people like humans.
That is a horrible thing. However, speaking as someone who has a brother that is intimately familiar with the US judicial system I must say that he has been stripped search more then a few times, he had been held in a county jail for close to a year while awaiting trial, and he certainly is seperated from his children.
You make choices in life, you take risks. The illegals that get caught took the risk by coming to the US that they may be jailed, searched and deported. As to why the womans son was adopted --- I call bs on that one. As someone who has adopted I am telling you that there is no way the state can 'steal' a womans baby and adopt it out without her permission. Unless her parental rights were terminated, if so there is more to the story then she is saying. After all, the state does not terminate female prisoners parental rights unless abuse and/or severe neglect was involved. I highly suspect that this is the case with the woman in the story.
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Old 06-08-2009, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Northern VA (for now)
23,028 posts, read 32,006,557 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post

This is the town of Postville, Iowa where the largest immigration raid in US history took place. One year later, locals reevaluate. There are no businesses, some went bankrupt and many are moving out. Is this how you want your town to look? If there are no businesses, there are no jobs, no way to survive.

How an immigration raid changed a town | csmonitor.com

FYI-I am not advocating for more illegal immigrants to enter this country. I am simply looking for the best solution to those that are already here and can help keep our economy going as well as keeping their families together as long as they are not violent criminals.
I have no sympathy for Postville. They relied on illegals to keep their economy going now that they're gone they are only reaping what they sowed.

Are you trying to tell me every small town in America will die without illegals? If your logic is true then the only places you'll find people in Virginia are either Richmond, Hampton Roads, or Northern Virginia.
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Old 06-08-2009, 02:59 PM
 
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Interesting story...but is it 'typical' of anything? I doubt that. It's simply an interesting story.

Postville has been in the 'spotlight' as far as 'culture clash' for some time now. Originally, the news was that a defunct packing plant, in a quintessentially insular 'midwest American' backwater, was bought by a group of Hasidic Jews ('Lubavitchers') from Brooklyn, NY, and turned into the largest kosher operation (as I recall) in the Western hemisphere. The culture clashes between the 'old time' Iowans and the 'new' families was remarkable. In addition, these new owners, in addition to hiring 'local' help, also imported people from as far away as Ukraine and Russia (MORE culture clash)..many of them illegal.

That was some years ago....and apparently now, the controversy is over HISPANIC illegals. Nevetheless, I doubt this story is indicative of anything 'typical'.

In closing, I can only wonder...IF we agree that illegal immigration is illegal....and IF we have the right to ever 'do anything' about it..then how DO you enforce a law, while at the same time guaranteeing that those who have BROKEN that law, will be 'happy' with the enforcement? I don't see how it's possible...you enforce a law, and almost always, the 'lawbreakers' aren't going to be happy. Can anyone suggest a way we can lower the numbers of illegals here, and do so in a way that will be 'liked' by those illegals?
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Old 06-08-2009, 04:26 PM
 
Location: Lake Norman, North Carolina
1,213 posts, read 1,398,957 times
Reputation: 392
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post

This is the town of Postville, Iowa where the largest immigration raid in US history took place. One year later, locals reevaluate. There are no businesses, some went bankrupt and many are moving out. Is this how you want your town to look? If there are no businesses, there are no jobs, no way to survive.

How an immigration raid changed a town | csmonitor.com

FYI-I am not advocating for more illegal immigrants to enter this country. I am simply looking for the best solution to those that are already here and can help keep our economy going as well as keeping their families together as long as they are not violent criminals.
Sob. So the town reverted back to the way it was before hordes of illegal Mexicans were trucked in? New businesses that were started up that catered to illegals would naturally fail when the illegals were kicked out.
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