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Old 06-09-2009, 01:28 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,409,314 times
Reputation: 475

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
Without changes in our laws, you are right. And building a fence isn't going to do a damn thing when the businesses on this side of it are dangling dollars and saying "climb over and it is yours". We need strong laws that REQUIRE (MANDATE) that ALL business and individuals VERFIY that ALL employees are legally here and can legally work and that their IDs say who they really are. And we need sanctions that BITE and bite hard. Multi million dollar fines and jail terms for managers who hire them. And the word "knowingly" needs to be removed from the law. The only defense should be that you verified the employee through INS. And we need a fake proof biometric ID card for everybody.
Only then would I favour amnesty. It needs to be clear that this is the LAST amnesty and no more will be forthcoming and, if we catch you sneaking in here, you are going to JAIL and not just back home.
Excellent post!
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:30 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,409,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
As soon as you give them amnesty, they will no longer be desired as the cheap labor, and the next wave comes over illegally to take their place.
If we get tough on the companies hiring them. It wont happen. Lets give these company owners jail time too.

Last edited by zacatecana; 06-09-2009 at 01:30 AM.. Reason: sp
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:35 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,409,314 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
The one thing every Pro-Illegal dances around is that any person, from any Country can become an American by going about it as the process is laid out.
That process is obviously not working. If you are poor in your country, you will never get a visa but we need poor people to work the lowest paid and most dangerous jobs in the US. So they wait until an illegal immigrant crosses the border to offer a job.
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Old 06-09-2009, 05:27 AM
 
Location: North Texas
23,599 posts, read 31,143,716 times
Reputation: 26661
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
As soon as you give them amnesty, they will no longer be desired as the cheap labor, and the next wave comes over illegally to take their place.
I agree, this is what happened with the last shamnesty.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
The one thing every Pro-Illegal dances around is that any person, from any Country can become an American by going about it as the process is laid out.
Well, they can and they can't. The uneducated, unskilled laborers that comprise most of the illegal population here in Texas would have little chance of immigrating legally ever unless they were part of a chain, ie family-based immigration.

That does not mean that they should be allowed to jump the fence. There is a reason why the United States does not seek uneducated unskilled labor: we already have enough of it here. In the 1800s and into the early 1900s, you could immigrate here if you were illiterate and unskilled. We had a great deal of manual labor to be done that did not require specialized training or the ability to read and write. That is no longer the case as the United States shifted to a services-based economy over the decades. We require highly educated, highly skilled people to fill these jobs. Immigrants must meet today's standards, not the standards of 150 years ago. If that means that the uneducated, unskilled illegals of today could never immigrate legally to the United States, that is not our problem.
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Old 06-09-2009, 05:30 AM
 
Location: North Texas
23,599 posts, read 31,143,716 times
Reputation: 26661
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
That process is obviously not working. If you are poor in your country, you will never get a visa but we need poor people to work the lowest paid and most dangerous jobs in the US. So they wait until an illegal immigrant crosses the border to offer a job.
Wrong. The process works well at keeping out felons, people with infectious diseases, and people who do not have enough of an education to immigrate here. But that only applies to people who follow the process in the first place.

Our immigration process is not designed to accommodate anybody who wants to immigrate here. That is not the point of allowing immigration to this country. People need to get it through their heads that our immigration system does not exist to benefit immigrants, it exists to benefit the United States. The United States has decided, wisely, that importing endless hordes of unskilled, uneducated laborers is not beneficial to the United States. That is why people like that are "locked out" of the process.

Not everybody who wants to immigrate to this country will be able to do so. That is life, and it is not our problem. It is not a situation that needs to be "fixed."
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Old 06-09-2009, 06:44 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Wrong. The process works well at keeping out felons, people with infectious diseases, and people who do not have enough of an education to immigrate here. But that only applies to people who follow the process in the first place.

Our immigration process is not designed to accommodate anybody who wants to immigrate here. That is not the point of allowing immigration to this country. People need to get it through their heads that our immigration system does not exist to benefit immigrants, it exists to benefit the United States. The United States has decided, wisely, that importing endless hordes of unskilled, uneducated laborers is not beneficial to the United States. That is why people like that are "locked out" of the process.

Not everybody who wants to immigrate to this country will be able to do so. That is life, and it is not our problem. It is not a situation that needs to be "fixed."
Very good post. Just because someone wants something does not "make it so". We have every right to say who is and isn't allowed in.
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Old 06-09-2009, 06:59 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
Wrong. The process works well at keeping out felons, people with infectious diseases, and people who do not have enough of an education to immigrate here. But that only applies to people who follow the process in the first place.

Our immigration process is not designed to accommodate anybody who wants to immigrate here. That is not the point of allowing immigration to this country. People need to get it through their heads that our immigration system does not exist to benefit immigrants, it exists to benefit the United States. The United States has decided, wisely, that importing endless hordes of unskilled, uneducated laborers is not beneficial to the United States. That is why people like that are "locked out" of the process.

Not everybody who wants to immigrate to this country will be able to do so. That is life, and it is not our problem. It is not a situation that needs to be "fixed."
Your post makes too much sense for illegal alien apologists.
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Old 06-09-2009, 10:30 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
That does not mean that they should be allowed to jump the fence. There is a reason why the United States does not seek uneducated unskilled labor: we already have enough of it here. In the 1800s and into the early 1900s, you could immigrate here if you were illiterate and unskilled. We had a great deal of manual labor to be done that did not require specialized training or the ability to read and write. That is no longer the case as the United States shifted to a services-based economy over the decades. We require highly educated, highly skilled people to fill these jobs. Immigrants must meet today's standards, not the standards of 150 years ago. If that means that the uneducated, unskilled illegals of today could never immigrate legally to the United States, that is not our problem.
My exact thoughts, stated in many previous posts. The ridiculous comparisons between immigration NOW and "back then" (even leaving OUT the matter of illegality) are simply emotional nonsense. The 'window' in our history of NEEDING large pools of unskilled labor has closed. At one time a 'good honest person', immigrant or NOT, could reasonably aspire to raise a family and even buy a home, on the wages of a ditch-digger, or a railroad track laborer, or a logger, or a farm hand....or a laborer in a steel mill or a coal mine. That 'window' has closed, and those fields have, too....and we CERTAINLY don't need to 'bring people in' and provide them jobs that we can't even find for our own high school dropouts.

There's a huge difference in our "needing" legal immigrants for certain jobs, and in "trying to 'squeeze them in'," (along with their illegal fellow travelers), regardless of skills....and there's also a huge difference in philosophy between saying "America imports immigrants to fill its needs", and saying "America MUST import immigrants, because it OWES that courtesy to the whole world". Big, BIG difference in these two basic attitudes.

If an industry wants to 'bring in' lowball workers to do certain unattractive, temporary work, that in theory would be OK. It would in theory be like the 'bracero' program. But when these low-paid workers are given the illusion that this means they then have the 'right' to bring their families in, settle down, and live on here indefinitely, the VERYONE loses...that's not fair to anyone, nor is it legal. It causes massive social upheaval, frustration among the 'workers', and anger among the locals when these 'temporary' workers branch out and begin depressing the wage scale in NON-temporary work. It gives illegals a false sense of entitlement, and eventually becomes a FAR greater issue than the mere "filling of jobs"..as we can see on this forum.

Last edited by macmeal; 06-09-2009 at 10:40 AM..
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:23 PM
 
1,448 posts, read 2,658,155 times
Reputation: 690
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormy night View Post
That sounds like a real tearjerker, but the fact is, those illegals move into towns and legal residents move out. The illegals didn't build that town, they just took it over. Now that they're gone, the real residents might move back in. If they don't, it's the town's own fault because they allowed the illegals there in the first place.
That is pretty much the scenerio we are seeing all over the US. Illegals move in by the hundreds and thousands and recreate Mexico north. Unless you are willing to immerse yourself in 3rd world culture the only other option is to move.
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Old 06-09-2009, 01:31 PM
 
1,156 posts, read 1,545,224 times
Reputation: 1148
.....your logic is garbage....

Allow illegal immigrants to stay so they can prop up your economy?....

...can I now rob you to prop up MY economy?......

Tell you what...you give me your income.....and I'll buy stuff in your town....to hold up the businesses...sound good?.......

Hey ...if you want illegal immigrants....why don't you TAKE THEM ALL....all 12, 15, 20 million of them......now THAT would change Iowa......forever...FOREVER baby.......

Hummmm.....do you SERIOIUSLY think that you can float Iowa's economy on burritos and body shops?
I know....you can sell "wife-beater" tee-shirts......with "I love IOWA" written on them......

EPIC FAIL.....
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