Why is illegal immigration even allowed? (married, prison, activist, accuse)

[GypsyHeart]

Originally Posted by saganista

Unless you're skipping over half the posts, it is.


Well, I don't know them all, but in the ones I do know, the law isn't held in quite the regard that you seem to have for it. You play the cards your dealt in the real world, and in this case, it's you all who did the dealing. You're asking me to shoot myself in the foot over it. Not going to happen, I assure you. You want me to play squeaky clean, make it so everyoine has to play squeaky clean. Give these guys your stupid little piece of paper. Legalize the bunch of them. They've more than earned it. But you won't do that. And then you want to blame me? I don't think so. This is your mess. You clean it up.


What do you know of my financial plan. Nothing. But you'll yap about it anyway, right. Here, have one of those roll-eyes things of yours.


Let me say this one more time. YOU refuse to pay me enough so that I can pay them what you yourself think I should. So having refused to pay on the front end, you're going to crab about having to pay on the back end too? Who's cheating here? Who's playing the short cut? Who's looking for the quick buck? Yeah, that would be you.


Way to go. You should be proud of all that. That's a lot of hard work there and I bet it took a lot of guts to do it. I think maybe you and a lot of my guys have more in common than I thought.


Aw, another roll-eyes thing. Gee, thanks. But it's you all thats doing the stealing here, and its the illegals that you're stealing from. You're just too busy knitting doilies or whatever Schoolmarm's do with their free time to notice.

Well, saganista, it seems impossible to have a conversation/debate w/you....
Not very helpful when you keep blaming everybody else for your problems, and/or problems of illegals to justify your/their behavior.
Two words: personal accountability. How about spreading a little of that around.... Take personal accountability for your own life, issues, problems, etc. If the illegals took some of it, they could stay in their own country and fix their own problems. And, no, I am not accepting responsibility for their messed up, corrupt govt/economy. I guess it's easier for them to head south of the border and leach of the good 'ol American, cause for sure someone is gonna ram that same tired argument down our throats: "it's all the big, nasty American's fault for being capitolist pigs; we're just taking what's righfully ours, plus they don't even want to do any stinkin' work anyway!!"
Am I right....yeah, I am!
Even a 1920's schoolmarm can see what's goin' on around here....doesn't take a rocket scientist, LOL.

[texasborn]

Originally Posted by andreabeth

My thoughts:
There are two main groups who benefit from having large numbers of illegal aliens in the US
1) Businesses- because they can pay them below market wages or pay them under the table, they do not have many of the costs ethical businesses do such as offering a health care plan to employees.
2) Political parties- probably the democrats more than the republicans. They are just licking their chops at the thought of all those new voters. In many area they are already seeing rewards as I strongly suspect illegals vote where minimal verification is needed to cast a ballot. Why not? They are no strangers to breaking the law and probably feel this is one of their 'rights'. You see, when our House of La Raza Rep. little Luis Guttierez starts holding 'voter registration clinics' I get suspicious.

Others benefit also but IMO, these are the main two.
The big lose is the US taxpayer. We are left to foot the bill for unpaid medical bills, including delivery of anchors. Some of these bills run into astronomical figures and the hospital is left writing it off-there is no way they are going to collect. To add insult to injury, when a state complains loudly enough about the huge medical bills it is saddled with courtesy of the govts failure to enforce the immigration laws and Uncle Sam agrees to kick in a few bucks, the money is taken out of Medicare! What a hoot! Senior citizens can't afford prescription drugs and Medicare funds are being used to pay for illegals!
The US taxpayer loses when ERs/hospitals eventually are forced to close their doors leaving US citizens with fewer places to go for emergency care and a longer drive. This also leads to a domino effect: as one ER closes additional strain is placed on surrounding ERs as they are forced to take in additional patients until they too are in danger of collapse. When they go under, stress is placed on the next group of hospitals- you get the idea.
Millions of anchors and their illegal siblings must be educated by law. This is where the homeowner really takes it to the jaw. These new students are often way behind academically and require ESL classes. Both remedial education and ESL are very expensive, leading to a cost/student that is typically much higher than the expenses a US student incurs. School overcrowding is another serious issue. When a community estimates the number of students that will be using the school system, they probably plan on a med. sized home with three bedrooms sending between 2-4 children into the schools. However, when 4 illegal families are living in that home, instead of a max. of 4 kids, 10 kids show up for school. The illegal families each pay only a portion of the property taxes, too. What a deal!- for them.

Why don't we do something about it? There are many fairly rabid ethnic advocacy groups who have convinced these individuals that they have a 'right' to be here and are entitled to the same privileges as an American citizen. Your typical illegal alien has not had the equivalent of a HS civics class and knows little about the US, so why would they not believe LaRaza, MECha, etc.? These people play the race card every time anyone tries to address the problem in an effective fashion and our govt backs right down.
Citizens have also allowed thmselves to be truncheoned into docility by the old 'there are so many of them we can't possibly do anything' argument.
An est. 25 million people traveled by air during the 12 day Thanksgiving holiday last year. We should be able to move out 12 million in a year or so.
Throwing up our hands and granting amnesty in any form is only going to encourage more to come here illegaly ( read about the 1886 amnesty fiasco). As far as I am concerned, we can do whatever we put our mind to. We are the country that put a man on the moon basically flying by the seat of our pants.The computer technology in today’s cars, minivans, SUVs and trucks is nearly one thousand times more powerful than that which guided the Apollo moon mission ......how did we do that? IF we decided to enforce the immigration laws already on the books, the ilegals would eventually be gone, either through deportation or enforced attrition (once they see the gravy train is no longer running, they will self-deport).
Don't give up yet. Go to FAIR or NumbersUSA (you can send a free fax to your congress cretin) and help us make a difference.

AB

I think the fiasco was in 1986 and it was during Ronald Reagan's administration, a Republican. And President Bush met with Vicente Fox right after he was elected to discuss this issue and his solution-amnesty. And, unfortunately for Fox, 911 occurred and amnesty was delayed. But, it was alluded to and that in and of itself brought millions more for the next 6 years... So, if you want to point the finger at one political party, let's look at who first granted amnesty in 1986-the Ronald Reagan. I am looking for a 3rd party to represent my concerns on this issue, because NEITHER party is interested in controlling ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

[Kele]

Originally Posted by saganista

Unless you're skipping over half the posts, it is.


Well, I don't know them all, but in the ones I do know, the law isn't held in quite the regard that you seem to have for it. You play the cards your dealt in the real world, and in this case, it's you all who did the dealing. You're asking me to shoot myself in the foot over it. Not going to happen, I assure you. You want me to play squeaky clean, make it so everyoine has to play squeaky clean. Give these guys your stupid little piece of paper. Legalize the bunch of them. They've more than earned it. But you won't do that. And then you want to blame me? I don't think so. This is your mess. You clean it up.


What do you know of my financial plan. Nothing. But you'll yap about it anyway, right. Here, have one of those roll-eyes things of yours.


Let me say this one more time. YOU refuse to pay me enough so that I can pay them what you yourself think I should. So having refused to pay on the front end, you're going to crab about having to pay on the back end too? Who's cheating here? Who's playing the short cut? Who's looking for the quick buck? Yeah, that would be you.


Way to go. You should be proud of all that. That's a lot of hard work there and I bet it took a lot of guts to do it. I think maybe you and a lot of my guys have more in common than I thought.


Aw, another roll-eyes thing. Gee, thanks. But it's you all thats doing the stealing here, and its the illegals that you're stealing from. You're just too busy knitting doilies or whatever Schoolmarm's do with their free time to notice.

I have far more to say on this subject than I am going to post right now. However, I just got in from class and I'm too tired to get on my soapbox tonight, so I'll get right to the point. Your statement about us stealing from illegals would be almost laughable if it weren't so blatantly idiotic.

I don't know how you figure that illegals are being stolen from. I mean, you're the one who seems to be in favor of keeping a lower wage slave class in the U.S. and we all know which geo-political group of people gets to be this centurie's new indentured sweatshop thralls, don't we?

We the People, here in good ol' Mexifornia, are shilling out OVER TEN AND ONE HALF BILLION DOLLARS EACH AND EVERY YEAR worth of our tax dollars in services for these illegals you claim we're stealing from. If each state bordering Mexico is spending even half of that, well...that would buy a whole bunch of your expensive lettuce and high end beef where I come from. I don't know about you, but I'd rather see my tax dollars improving my kid's schools, fixing our freeway problems or some other worthy project rather than seeing it sucked down into the black hole of illegal immigration with no hope of recompense whatsoever.

Of course, that doesn't even take into account the cost of the crime (gang warfare, drug smuggling, murder, rape, drunk driving, larceny) that we are importing into this country from across our southern border. I know..not all illegals are hard-core criminals. Well, in this American's opinion, we have enough of our own crime without importing even more. I'm sure the families of the estimated 25 Americans killed per day in this country by illegal aliens would agree with me.

The problem with you "the poor illegals are just doing the jobs you Americans won't do...blah, blah, blah...they just want to work....blah, blah, blah..." types is that you truly don't think the economics of this problem through. You see illegal labor...you think "poor little third world person struggling to make a living in mean ol' American...we have so much...let's give them more." Illegal immigration is destroying the middle-class of this country. Black Americans are being affected even more so than any other ethnic class of Americans. This doesn't even take into consideration the war being raged against Black Americans in Los Angeles by Hispanic gang members.

In my personal opinion, the tax burden placed on Americans by illegal immigration, the annihilation of the middle class, and the loss of American lives isn't worth any of it. If these people want rights, let them go back to their own country and fight for them. There are plenty of people in this country whose ancestors fought for American civil rights. They deserve them. Illegal aliens do not.

[Stonecoldharbours]

A sin? that does not apply to me, as I am not a christian and you make no sense at all Boomer, none at all here, not even going to waste my time typing here to ya.

[huckster]

Yea your right about the aded tax burden on the taxpayer,etc, but how can it be stopped, one could no more stop this than one could stop Europeans from coming for several hundred years. What a 2000 mile border? News Flash Nov. 1492-------To all native american tribes" Eropeans coming over to "Take Over" Stop this illegal immigration at once , alert your local tribal chieftain.
A lot of talk.........
Apartheid-------
The Berlin Wall
The Great Wall of China

What wonderfull ideas these were.

I for one do not want to pay a huge real estate tax bill in Bexar county , but we might just as well try and hold back the surf at Corpus.

Suppose we , Americans, went to China, killed every last Chinese off in side a 100,000 square mile area, and set up a democratic form of govt. and tried not to let Chinese in , would it work? Would they stay out?
"Let's put up a fence!" some would say. Great idea, one is partly there already anyway!
Would that keep the chinese out? One quarter of the earths pop. lives there.
Lesson- one cannot exterminate the indigenous race of a continent permanently if it is partially left there. Extermination has to be complete on the continent, of "recontamination" will occur.A peculiar form of expression
where human beings are concerned. aka Nazis.
Exactly like the Orkin man.
The third world is knocking at our door, in many forms , imports of toyotas, outsourcing of our factories and plants, Wal-Mart prices,
foreign technology-electronics, pharmaceuticals etc, free trade practices.
Will it be pretty? Nom' definitely not, at first but as the rest of the world
progresses all will improve.
Will racism or discrimination do it? Right........
What will stop it? Machine guns? Of course not, not with the U.S.'s human rights laws. We are not all Husseins in nature, are we?
Lets hope we all have improved since teh old westr was "won".
I hope not, the better side of our natures will prevail.
Suppose just suppose, one went to India and started a plan to wipe out the tigers on the northern half of the sub-continent? Just for human safety's
sake, it would be right of course? Less people devoured.
Success? But then would not the tigers come back to the southern half of the continent, what would make this decree of no tigers in one half of India holy? Would lives be saved by this decree? The next time kill
them off all the way to the pakistan border! That'll do it,
"get er' done'!" Lets put up a fence!
No it wouldn't.
I will never forget what the late and great Texan politician ,Ann Richardson said about about the english only "issue".
When asked about the topic by larry king, she though for just a second and then replied,

"Well ----------- if English was good enough for Jesus Christ, it is good enough for me." Hilarity and profundity all in one reply.
I suppose if Christ wanted an english only country he would have added it in the commandments?
What if he spoke another language, would he be persecuted,
just like before?
Don't be so scared of another culture.
European culture has melded all over, it will happen here too,
and there is nothing sacred about it.
One cannot legislate morality or mass migration or languages.
To contemplate such is ignorance. There is no "solution".
A reality Check , Texas born also but now a Michiganian

Originally Posted by texasborn

I think the fiasco was in 1986 and it was during Ronald Reagan's administration, a Republican. And President Bush met with Vicente Fox right after he was elected to discuss this issue and his solution-amnesty. And, unfortunately for Fox, 911 occurred and amnesty was delayed. But, it was alluded to and that in and of itself brought millions more for the next 6 years... So, if you want to point the finger at one political party, let's look at who first granted amnesty in 1986-the Ronald Reagan. I am looking for a 3rd party to represent my concerns on this issue, because NEITHER party is interested in controlling ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION.

[ArizonaBear]

Memo to Huckster:

If we could put a man on the moon almost 40 years ago; we can certainly secure our southern border (illegal immigration along the USA/Canadian frontier is miniscule).

Here in Arizona; our Employer Sanctions Law, despite not being presently enforced (it is on hold) evidently has terrified the employers enough that they are presently verifying SSN's-------which is running off the illegal immigrants in droves

I am noticed a dramatic decline of 'Mariachi' type music blaring from vehicles along with far fewer 'Chihuahua' type Mexican state decals posted in the back windows of pickup trucks.

Even the businesses that cater to the 'Hispanic' clientele are suffering-----and, they were starting to feel the effects several months ago.

In closing: trust me; between self deportation and tighter border enforcement-------if it eliminated 80% of the illegals along with their Anchor Babies, I would be content. Tossing out the full 100% would not be worth the effort for expenses incurred.

Final point: eliminate the Anchor Baby rule for children born; say, after 7-1-08 but 'grandfather' those born 6-31-08 in, obviously. That alone may wind up chasing off a few more illegals.

Translation: those few illegals left here would most definitely 'fly under the radar'

[Arizona Bound]

illegal pregnant mexican mamma who sneaks over ONLY to get automatic citizenship for her anchor baby is the worst culprit! We Americans pay for her anchor baby for years and years.. then they have more babies and we pay for them as well... welfare, jobs, education.

it's a loop-hole in the 14th amendment that needs to be fixed NOW!

It was NEVER meant for illegal-mommy to sneak over in the dead of night to spit-out her anchor babies!

This is a HUGE reason for so many illegal mexicans who continue to abuse America!

Change this.. and we will see a GIGANTIC reduction in all areas.. WELFARE, HEALTHCARE and so-on!

Change this.. and when word gets out they can NO LONGER get automatic citizenship for thier anchor-baby.. they WON'T bother sneaking over ONLY to give birth! They'll still sneak over.. but without new anchor babies!

illegal-mexican mommy NEEDS to go thru the LEGAL process BEFORE entering OUR country.. STOP putting the cart BEFORE the horse!

BTW: yes.. any illegal-mommy.. from any country.. NO ANCHOR BABIES ALLOWED!

[Ozark-Baby]

Originally Posted by Arizona Bound

illegal pregnant mexican mamma who sneaks over ONLY to get automatic citizenship for her anchor baby is the worst culprit! We Americans pay for her anchor baby for years and years.. then they have more babies and we pay for them as well... welfare, jobs, education.

it's a loop-hole in the 14th amendment that needs to be fixed NOW!

It was NEVER meant for illegal-mommy to sneak over in the dead of night to spit-out her anchor babies!

This is a HUGE reason for so many illegal mexicans who continue to abuse America!

Change this.. and we will see a GIGANTIC reduction in all areas.. WELFARE, HEALTHCARE and so-on!

illegal-mexican mommy NEEDS to go thru the LEGAL process BEFORE entering OUR country.. STOP putting the cart BEFORE the horse!

Agreed and to put it even more bluntly, not one pregnant person should be allowed into this country to have children, and that also goes for those Koreans who like to come here legally and then have their babies.

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by Ozark-Baby

Agred and to put it even more bluntly, not one pregnant person should be allowed into this country to have children, and that also goes for those Koreans who like to come here legally and then have their babies.

That may be a hard one to enforce; I am referring to legal visiters to the USA only.

Say a student from, say Italy was here going to school and unbeknownst to her was already 2 months pregnant (by a non US citizen) and gave birth here in the States 6 months later while still in school.

AFAIK: that kid should be a US citizen by default.

Now; if the bio father is American, then said child would be a citizen automatically-------DNA testing would tell the story.

Trust me: of the Anchor Baby loophole as it applied to illegals were closed, that would probably eliminate 90% of said scenarios

[JesusisLord]

Illegal immigration is allowed because there's not enough Americans who do labor intensive jobs. More jobs have been created over the past 30 years in ever before, leaving young Americans more options than just a police officer and a doctor.