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Old 06-10-2009, 10:59 PM
 
2,088 posts, read 2,186,043 times
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If welfare and financial assistance to "immigrants" were completely eliminated everywhere in the country, would you still be as strongly opposed to open borders and illegal aliens?

Before the modern era, there was basically no government assistance to any new immigrants. You basically worked or you would starve to death. You could not sneak across the border into the country and pop out a baby and then get free healthcare/welfare/food/housing. Illegals would not be able to scam governments of billions of dollars like they are doing today.

Personally, I think I would not be "anti-illegal" if it were to happen.

What about you?
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Old 06-10-2009, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,449 posts, read 22,948,866 times
Reputation: 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian123 View Post
If welfare and financial assistance to "immigrants" were completely eliminated everywhere in the country, would you still be as strongly opposed to open borders and illegal aliens?

Before the modern era, there was basically no government assistance to any new immigrants. You basically worked or you would starve to death. You could not sneak across the border into the country and pop out a baby and then get free healthcare/welfare/food/housing. Illegals would not be able to scam governments of billions of dollars like they are doing today.

Personally, I think I would not be "anti-illegal" if it were to happen.

What about you?
That's the libertarian argument. Milton Friedman said "America does not have an illegal immigration problem, America has a welfare state problem"

Even Ron Paul, who is atypically for a libertarian opposed to any illegal immigration, said that mass deportations are cruel and inhumane and only advocates the deportation of illegals who commit crimes or become public charges (go on welfare)

Although I could see this policy creating problems of its own, it would deeply help in integrating immigrants both legal and illegal. The Hungarian ancestors of ArizonaBear and myself didn't have welfare to rely on and thus we HAD to assimilate.
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Old 06-11-2009, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,483 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian123 View Post
If welfare and financial assistance to "immigrants" were completely eliminated everywhere in the country, would you still be as strongly opposed to open borders and illegal aliens?

Before the modern era, there was basically no government assistance to any new immigrants. You basically worked or you would starve to death. You could not sneak across the border into the country and pop out a baby and then get free healthcare/welfare/food/housing. Illegals would not be able to scam governments of billions of dollars like they are doing today.

Personally, I think I would not be "anti-illegal" if it were to happen.

What about you?
I agree with you, I think of an immigrant ( legal or illegal ) as someone who comes to find work and to better himself. Therefore I do not see the need to give welfare to immigrants. I say give them the ability to work and study and remove all the government handouts that you mentioned, like healthcare, welfare, food and housing. Maybe even a system that would require you to fingerprint and register you, if you go on welfare, and have a time limit, say a month or two weeks. So people don't come here for the welfare but the occasional emergency is covered. If the person decides to stay on welfare then they can be deported.
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:45 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
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We are about to roll out that experiment here in California. Nevada had better strap on being that their population is about to become much larger next year.
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,126 posts, read 25,784,820 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
We are about to roll out that experiment here in California. Nevada had better strap on being that their population is about to become much larger next year.

Yep! I thought it was funny that they used it as a 'threat' to talk us into agreeing to higher taxes, but instead people WANTED welfare reduced or eliminated.

Backfired!
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Old 06-11-2009, 12:33 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,483 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
We are about to roll out that experiment here in California. Nevada had better strap on being that their population is about to become much larger next year.
If his is correct then legalizing people and removing welfare to immigrants at the federal level would cause the ones that are not here to work but to leech to self-deport.

Win-Win
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Old 06-11-2009, 01:35 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
If his is correct then legalizing people and removing welfare to immigrants at the federal level would cause the ones that are not here to work but to leech to self-deport.

Win-Win
There is nothing keeping people from applying for Citizenship today. Nothing.

There were 22 people who paid smugglers thousands each but got caught off San Diego a few days ago. That money would have covered the fees for applying and then some.
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Old 06-11-2009, 01:42 PM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,174,483 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
There is nothing keeping people from applying for Citizenship today. Nothing.

There were 22 people who paid smugglers thousands each but got caught off San Diego a few days ago. That money would have covered the fees for applying and then some.
For you to apply for Citizenship you have to be a U.S. Legal Permanent Resident for 5 years (3 if married to a U.S. citizen or are in the Uniformed Services). I don't think most people who are illegal, or in another countries would meet this requirement.

If you meant apply for Permanent Residency the requirements can be found at:
USCIS - How Do I Get an Immigrant Visa Number?

Under the area "Who is eligible?"

Saying that nothing is keeping people from applying for citizenship, while technically correct since they can apply, is not correct in the sense that since they do not meet the eligibility requirements, their applications would be instantaneously rejected.

It's like saying someone without a High school degree, GED, or College degree could apply to a Law school, after all they can all fill the form and pay the application fee, but since they do not met the requirements to be considered for admission they will be turned down instantaneously.
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Old 06-11-2009, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Surprise, Az
3,496 posts, read 8,340,555 times
Reputation: 1832
I'm all for a no welfare nation as long as the person is able to work. However, programs that help the disabled (sick,MR,etc.) must remain in place.
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Old 06-11-2009, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian123 View Post
If welfare and financial assistance to "immigrants" were completely eliminated everywhere in the country, would you still be as strongly opposed to open borders and illegal aliens?

Before the modern era, there was basically no government assistance to any new immigrants. You basically worked or you would starve to death. You could not sneak across the border into the country and pop out a baby and then get free healthcare/welfare/food/housing. Illegals would not be able to scam governments of billions of dollars like they are doing today.

Personally, I think I would not be "anti-illegal" if it were to happen.

What about you?
If illegals could not receive ANY freebies, we would only have a handful in this country. Some come exclusively to work. However, the majority are here to take advantage of our social services. Giving birth in this country guarantees them at least 18 years of freebies. Since most have 4 or 5 children on U.S. soil, they can usually remain parasites for at least 25 or 30 years.

Yes, I would still oppose open borders and illegal immigration.
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