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Old 06-13-2009, 08:51 AM
 
Location: North Texas
23,636 posts, read 31,299,087 times
Reputation: 26712

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
We are not obligated to prepare them for anything. Thatís their responsibility. Had their parents not put them in this quandary, they would already be living in their home country, and there would be no need for this discussion. Their parents should do whatever is necessary to help them return home to pursue their academic dreams. Perhaps they can seek assistance from La Raza, or other ďimmigrantĒ advocacy groups. They could implement a repatriation preparatory program specifically for illegals pursuing college educations in their countries of origin. I think that would be a worthy cause, donít you?

I am a staunch opponent of illegal immigration; which includes the ingrate DREAMies. Thatís why I am so adamant. Iím sick of my country being used and abused by foreigners who have no regard for our laws, or respect for this country in general. Actually, I once felt compassion for these ďchildren.Ē However, after visiting their website over a year ago; not to mention, our recent barrage of trolling DREAMies spewing insults, I feel nothing but contempt. I want all of them out of my country.
When we have capable American children who are denied a college education due to the insane cost of it while the DREAMies are given a break of any variety, it is practically criminal. I acknowledge that the illegals brought over as kids did not have a say in coming here but they do have a say in leaving then legalizing their statuses.

No illegal immigrant should receive any break of any kind to attend any taxpayer-funded college or university. This includes being able to pay in-state tuition rates.
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Old 06-13-2009, 08:52 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,801,279 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDGeek View Post
When we have capable American children who are denied a college education due to the insane cost of it while the DREAMies are given a break of any variety, it is practically criminal. I acknowledge that the illegals brought over as kids did not have a say in coming here but they do have a say in leaving then legalizing their statuses.

No illegal immigrant should receive any break of any kind to attend any taxpayer-funded college or university. This includes being able to pay in-state tuition rates.
Do you have any news stories of American children being denied a college education because an illegal immigrant took their spot?
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Old 06-13-2009, 08:54 AM
 
Location: North Texas
23,636 posts, read 31,299,087 times
Reputation: 26712
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Do you have any news stories of American children being denied a college education because an illegal immigrant took their spot?
Did you even read what I wrote? Go back and read please, I never said they were stealing spots, and it is not a zero sum game.

American children are routinely denied the opportunity to attend college because of the cost of it.

This while people are advocating breaks for these illegals to pay in-state tuition rates or even receive scholarships. It's a crock. We owe them nothing.
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Old 06-13-2009, 10:58 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,088,720 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Irrelevant-----------just accept the fact that we owe illegal aliens nothing more than 3 hots and a cot prior to their deportation.
That's very relevant, actually. Specifically to Benicar's post.
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Old 06-13-2009, 11:06 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,088,720 times
Reputation: 822
When we have capable American children who are denied a college education due to the insane cost of it while the DREAMies are given a break of any variety, it is practically criminal. I acknowledge that the illegals brought over as kids did not have a say in coming here but they do have a say in leaving then legalizing their statuses.

Look, a university or college will evaluate the individual on performance as well. If the capable American got a lower GPA or SAT scor, then they weren't that capable. Conversely, if the illegal immigrant got the lower GPA or SAT they won't be admitted. Universities and colleges are in the business of prestige. Each school has their pecking order.

On a wholly different subject that you brought up, costs in general need to decline to make a college education more attainable for those that are truly competent.

No illegal immigrant should receive any break of any kind to attend any taxpayer-funded college or university. This includes being able to pay in-state tuition rates.

Again, your taxes are such a small percentage that it doesn't even really go towards the aid of the students (esp. at top tier publics...the UC system recieves MUCH more private funding than public, as does all the top tier publics). The lower tier publics recieve more state funds, but a significant portion of those funds don't even filter into an immediate impact on the student (they go towards mostly admin pay and reserve funds). So we really should ban the out of state tuition concept.
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Old 06-13-2009, 11:13 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,088,720 times
Reputation: 822
We are not obligated to prepare them for anything. Thatís their responsibility. Had their parents not put them in this quandary, they would already be living in their home country, and there would be no need for this discussion. Their parents should do whatever is necessary to help them return home to pursue their academic dreams. Perhaps they can seek assistance from La Raza, or other ďimmigrantĒ advocacy groups. They could implement a repatriation preparatory program specifically for illegals pursuing college educations in their countries of origin. I think that would be a worthy cause, donít you?

Again, not to belabor the point, but they are already here. They already went through the hoops and trials of the American system. They WORKED for their college education. Why not let them be?

I am a staunch opponent of illegal immigration; which includes the ingrate DREAMies. Thatís why I am so adamant. Iím sick of my country being used and abused by foreigners who have no regard for our laws, or respect for this country in general. Actually, I once felt compassion for these ďchildren.Ē However, after visiting their website over a year ago; not to mention, our recent barrage of trolling DREAMies spewing insults, I feel nothing but contempt. I want all of them out of my country.

Many of your fears are irrational. Does this affect in salient, constant manner? I can answer for you, no. Maybe they state those things on their website in the same manner and vein that you state your opinions about them. Hell, if the positions were switched you would do the same. Their needs to be a comprimise. There needs to be a system in which all parties can agree to.
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Old 06-13-2009, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,844,279 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
We are not obligated to prepare them for anything. Thatís their responsibility. Had their parents not put them in this quandary, they would already be living in their home country, and there would be no need for this discussion. Their parents should do whatever is necessary to help them return home to pursue their academic dreams. Perhaps they can seek assistance from La Raza, or other ďimmigrantĒ advocacy groups. They could implement a repatriation preparatory program specifically for illegals pursuing college educations in their countries of origin. I think that would be a worthy cause, donít you?

Again, not to belabor the point, but they are already here. They already went through the hoops and trials of the American system. They WORKED for their college education. Why not let them be?

I am a staunch opponent of illegal immigration; which includes the ingrate DREAMies. Thatís why I am so adamant. Iím sick of my country being used and abused by foreigners who have no regard for our laws, or respect for this country in general. Actually, I once felt compassion for these ďchildren.Ē However, after visiting their website over a year ago; not to mention, our recent barrage of trolling DREAMies spewing insults, I feel nothing but contempt. I want all of them out of my country.

Many of your fears are irrational. Does this affect in salient, constant manner? I can answer for you, no. Maybe they state those things on their website in the same manner and vein that you state your opinions about them. Hell, if the positions were switched you would do the same. Their needs to be a comprimise. There needs to be a system in which all parties can agree to.
You continue to miss the point. I donít care if they attend college. I simply donít want them rewarded with a path to citizenship for doing so. Nor, do I want tax dollars used in the form of scholarships or in-state tuition. The fact that they are ďhereĒ is irrelevant; so are 20+ million other illegal aliens. This is not their country, and the citizens of this country have every right to demand their removal.

We are not discussing irrational fears. We are discussing a Ďrealí problem. We have massive illegal immigration in this country, and it is draining us dry. If we had even 1 million, perhaps we could allow Ďsomeí to remain in various capacities. However, we simply cannot continue along this path of destruction.

Regarding the insolent DREAMies -- I can clearly understand their desperation. Itís an unfortunate situation; but Iím sorry, they need to leave, along with their parents who created this dilemma. To add insult to injury, they donít show even a modicum of appreciation for the opportunities they have been afforded through their tax-funded K-12 education. All they do is whine and make demands. Quite frankly, Iím sick of them, and their arrogance and delusional sense of entitlement.

Perhaps, had they approached this differently, with humility and gratitude, they would have garnered more support. Itís too late now; too many citizens see them for the ingrates they are. Itís time for them to grow up and accept responsibility for their lives. They canít keep waiting for Uncle Sam to fulfill their dreams. This country has been more than generous, and now itís time to move on. We have our own children, and our own problems.
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Old 06-13-2009, 12:56 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,088,720 times
Reputation: 822
You continue to miss the point. I donít care if they attend college. I simply donít want them rewarded with a path to citizenship for doing so. Nor, do I want tax dollars used in the form of scholarships or in-state tuition. The fact that they are ďhereĒ is irrelevant; so are 20+ million other illegal aliens. This is not their country, and the citizens of this country have every right to demand their removal.


We are not discussing irrational fears. We are discussing a Ďrealí problem. We have massive illegal immigration in this country, and it is draining us dry. If we had even 1 million, perhaps we could allow Ďsomeí to remain in various capacities. However, we simply cannot continue along this path of destruction.

So find a comprimise. Much of the problems stems from the current social class system in this nation. Fear is driving many discussions on this board. "Path of destruction" is an irrational statement of fear btw.

Regarding the insolent DREAMies -- I can clearly understand their desperation. Itís an unfortunate situation; but Iím sorry, they need to leave, along with their parents who created this dilemma. To add insult to injury, they donít show even a modicum of appreciation for the opportunities they have been afforded through their tax-funded K-12 education. All they do is whine and make demands. Quite frankly, Iím sick of them, and their arrogance and delusional sense of entitlement.

Why do they NEED to leave? Esp. if they are attending college.

Perhaps, had they approached this differently, with humility and gratitude, they would have garnered more support. Itís too late now; too many citizens see them for the ingrates they are. Itís time for them to grow up and accept responsibility for their lives. They canít keep waiting for Uncle Sam to fulfill their dreams. This country has been more than generous, and now itís time to move on. We have our own children, and our own problems.

Perhaps if people wouldn't call them "insolent" and "ingrates" maybe they would approach the situation differently. Perhaps if we tried to view this as a two way street, maybe things might be different.
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Old 06-13-2009, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,844,279 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
So find a comprimise. Much of the problems stems from the current social class system in this nation. Fear is driving many discussions on this board. "Path of destruction" is an irrational statement of fear btw.
Why do we need to compromise with people who have no right to be here? Do we compromise with others who violate our laws?

If you believe it is an irrational fear, tell that to the citizens whose identities have been stolen, and lives ruined. Tell that to the victims and families of victims of illegal alien violent criminals. Tell that to the millions whose trades have been dominated by cheap illegal labor, or wages have been depressed. Tell that to the bankrupt hospitals forced to provide ďfreeĒ medical care to hordes of illegal aliens. Tell that to the citizens whose neighborhoods have been decimated by illegal aliens who prefer to transform nice environments into the squalor they left behind. If you think illegal immigration isnít destroying this country, you are not awake.

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Why do they NEED to leave? Esp. if they are attending college.
They need to leave, because they do not have permission to be here. They are interlopers. If they wish to live in this country, they need to enter through the proper channels.

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Perhaps if people wouldn't call them "insolent" and "ingrates" maybe they would approach the situation differently. Perhaps if we tried to view this as a two way street, maybe things might be different.
They Ďearnedí the labels they now own. Had they not been so arrogant and ungrateful, they wouldnít be perceived as such.
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Old 06-13-2009, 03:08 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,088,720 times
Reputation: 822
Why do we need to compromise with people who have no right to be here? Do we compromise with others who violate our laws?

Actually we comprimise all the time with people who violate laws. If you get out of a speeding ticket...it's a comprimise. Laws in of themselves are comprises. They are designed to work for the people. People have to agree on laws. Thus, a comprimise. We have to comprimise with everyone who live, work, and obtain an education in the US. Mathematically, scientifically, psychologically, sociologically, speaking COMPRIMISES WORK BETTER THAN ULTIMATUMS FOR EVERYONE! It's a basic tenent of game theory.

If you believe it is an irrational fear, tell that to the citizens whose identities have been stolen, and lives ruined. Tell that to the victims and families of victims of illegal alien violent criminals. Tell that to the millions whose trades have been dominated by cheap illegal labor, or wages have been depressed. Tell that to the bankrupt hospitals forced to provide ďfreeĒ medical care to hordes of illegal aliens. Tell that to the citizens whose neighborhoods have been decimated by illegal aliens who prefer to transform nice environments into the squalor they left behind. If you think illegal immigration isnít destroying this country, you are not awake.

Yeah the "path to destruction", the "lives ruined" etc. are kind of irrational. You're MUCH more likely to be attacked by a citizen than an illegal. Statistically, it's irrational to be afraid of violent crimes caused by illegal immigrants. Just like it if I told you I'm afraid of violent crimes because of blondes. Bankrupt hospitals goes back to the larger issue at hand, healthcare reform. Neighborhoods decimated? Like formercaliforniagirl's above average income area? Most of the time those people are, well, irrational. I have told that to them. They get huffy and puffy and storm off. I agree that there are unpleasant elements. These things can be fixed. One way is promoting education as a path towards citizenship. Hence a comprimise. I also do believe in shutting down companies that hire exclusively illegal immigrants. A comprimise. Life is not binary. People who think like that lack a certain amount of rationality.



They need to leave, because they do not have permission to be here. They are interlopers. If they wish to live in this country, they need to enter through the proper channels.



They Ďearnedí the labels they now own. Had they not been so arrogant and ungrateful, they wouldnít be perceived as such.

Maybe it's the other way around as well. Some might be deserved, some might not be. Again it's not so cut and dry.
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