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Old 06-11-2009, 09:47 PM
 
709 posts, read 1,541,871 times
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Brazil for example is not a salad bowl country because even though it is racially and ethnically diverse ranging from Germans, Africans, Portuguese, Italians, Japanese, Pollacks, Amerindians, Jews, Arabs, Chinese, etc they all still manage to to be united by 1 common language which is Portuguese. Brazil is not a bilingual nation because the overwhelming majority of people who immigrated there ended up assimilating. Hence why Brazil is a melting pot and not a salad bowl.

The U.S used to be a melting pot until 1965, after that the U.S turned into a salad bowl.

The U.S was a melting pot when the majority of immigration came from Europe. But today the U.S is a salad bowl because most immigrants come from Mexico and Central America.

Before 1965 everybody in the U.S was united by 1 common language which was English.
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Old 06-11-2009, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Why, of course! Moreover, this “salad bowl” is wilting into balkanization.
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Old 06-11-2009, 11:11 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,077,957 times
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Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Why, of course! Moreover, this “salad bowl” is wilting into balkanization.
Balkanization was due to the forced communist regime and subesquent preference and dominance of the Serbs over other Slavic peoples. Thus, coercion was the biggest factor.

Balkinization was due to the fact that cultures could NOT express themselves freely.

Bad analogy.
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:46 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Balkanization was due to the forced communist regime and subesquent preference and dominance of the Serbs over other Slavic peoples. Thus, coercion was the biggest factor.

Balkinization was due to the fact that cultures could NOT express themselves freely.

Bad analogy.
The term "Balkanization" comes from the 'Balkan States' of Southeastern Europe...Rumania, Bulgaria, Albania, what USED to be Yugoslavia, etc. These people lived in a more-or-less permanent, ongoing state of ethnic and religious tension LONG before the communists arrived on the scene (indeed, communist strongman Tito, who ruled multi-ethnic Yugoslavia with an 'iron fist', is generally credited with PREVENTING, for many years, the cultural conflict that re-erupted there after his death. While he was alive, he wouldn't LET them "express themselves", and thus they grudgingly got along...for a while)..Indeed, much of this region was long referred to as 'Europe's last remaining tribal area'. It goes WAY beyong the Serbs..ALL groups, in ALL of these countries, were both guilty of 'beating up' on their neighbors, AND all had legitimate gripes against the others. This just was NOT an area where people tended to 'get along' for any length of time.

Sure there was 'coercion' in The Balkans....these people coerced each OTHER, each group with its own agenda, and each group determined to advance ITS interests at the expense of those of its neighbors.. But they never had trouble 'expressing' themselves...they did that very well, and the result was violence, strife, a very STRONG sense of 'tribe', and a very WEAK sense of 'nationhood'.

That's what 'balkanization' means...a separate collection of generally mutually-hostile 'tribes' (groups) who will grudgingly co-exist in the same space, as long as they're FORCED to...but who, left alone to their own devises, will probably end up descending into repeated violent conflict, since they don't see their 'neighbors' as being friends or allies, but as rivals instead.

That's the 'dark side' of multiculturalism, and I thought Benicar's point was well taken.

Reply to this, or not, as you wish. I don't care either way. I have no interest in arguing the point further....this is simply a statement of fact.
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:54 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Why, of course! Moreover, this “salad bowl” is wilting into balkanization.
Good point...
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Why, of course! Moreover, this “salad bowl” is wilting into balkanization.
E Pluribus Unum
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Old 06-12-2009, 08:58 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
E Pluribus Unum
Speak English....why should we have to learn Greek?...
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Old 06-12-2009, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
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Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Speak English....why should we have to learn Greek?...
Can someone say the Latinization of American culture?


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Old 06-12-2009, 04:09 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
The term "Balkanization" comes from the 'Balkan States' of Southeastern Europe...Rumania, Bulgaria, Albania, what USED to be Yugoslavia, etc. These people lived in a more-or-less permanent, ongoing state of ethnic and religious tension LONG before the communists arrived on the scene (indeed, communist strongman Tito, who ruled multi-ethnic Yugoslavia with an 'iron fist', is generally credited with PREVENTING, for many years, the cultural conflict that re-erupted there after his death. While he was alive, he wouldn't LET them "express themselves", and thus they grudgingly got along...for a while)..Indeed, much of this region was long referred to as 'Europe's last remaining tribal area'. It goes WAY beyong the Serbs..ALL groups, in ALL of these countries, were both guilty of 'beating up' on their neighbors, AND all had legitimate gripes against the others. This just was NOT an area where people tended to 'get along' for any length of time.

Sure there was 'coercion' in The Balkans....these people coerced each OTHER, each group with its own agenda, and each group determined to advance ITS interests at the expense of those of its neighbors.. But they never had trouble 'expressing' themselves...they did that very well, and the result was violence, strife, a very STRONG sense of 'tribe', and a very WEAK sense of 'nationhood'.

That's what 'balkanization' means...a separate collection of generally mutually-hostile 'tribes' (groups) who will grudgingly co-exist in the same space, as long as they're FORCED to...but who, left alone to their own devises, will probably end up descending into repeated violent conflict, since they don't see their 'neighbors' as being friends or allies, but as rivals instead.

That's the 'dark side' of multiculturalism, and I thought Benicar's point was well taken.

Reply to this, or not, as you wish. I don't care either way. I have no interest in arguing the point further....this is simply a statement of fact.
Preach, Brother, Preach!!!!!
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Old 06-12-2009, 04:30 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,897,260 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
The term "Balkanization" comes from the 'Balkan States' of Southeastern Europe...Rumania, Bulgaria, Albania, what USED to be Yugoslavia, etc. These people lived in a more-or-less permanent, ongoing state of ethnic and religious tension LONG before the communists arrived on the scene (indeed, communist strongman Tito, who ruled multi-ethnic Yugoslavia with an 'iron fist', is generally credited with PREVENTING, for many years, the cultural conflict that re-erupted there after his death. While he was alive, he wouldn't LET them "express themselves", and thus they grudgingly got along...for a while)..Indeed, much of this region was long referred to as 'Europe's last remaining tribal area'. It goes WAY beyong the Serbs..ALL groups, in ALL of these countries, were both guilty of 'beating up' on their neighbors, AND all had legitimate gripes against the others. This just was NOT an area where people tended to 'get along' for any length of time.

Sure there was 'coercion' in The Balkans....these people coerced each OTHER, each group with its own agenda, and each group determined to advance ITS interests at the expense of those of its neighbors.. But they never had trouble 'expressing' themselves...they did that very well, and the result was violence, strife, a very STRONG sense of 'tribe', and a very WEAK sense of 'nationhood'.

That's what 'balkanization' means...a separate collection of generally mutually-hostile 'tribes' (groups) who will grudgingly co-exist in the same space, as long as they're FORCED to...but who, left alone to their own devises, will probably end up descending into repeated violent conflict, since they don't see their 'neighbors' as being friends or allies, but as rivals instead.

That's the 'dark side' of multiculturalism, and I thought Benicar's point was well taken.

Reply to this, or not, as you wish. I don't care either way. I have no interest in arguing the point further....this is simply a statement of fact.
Bravo, another fabulous one mac
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