Jobs Americans Will Do!!!!!!!! (married, independence, invasion, USA)

[SimpleMan]

Originally Posted by Kellem

I have been to Dallas multiple times, my gf is from Arlington, and never had problems getting food, even in the Asian areas. (My first language is Spanish ) I do not know what your neighbourhood is, but I have been around Dallas quite a bit.

Their point is that at ALL the restaurants in their area, fast food, Asian, Indian, etc., everyone there is Spanish speaking. So the fact that your first language is Spanish, do you think that may be why YOU aren't having any problems? Or are you honestly telling me that when you converse with these people who's first language is also Spanish that you are talking to each other in English?

[Kellem]

Originally Posted by SimpleMan

Their point is that at ALL the restaurants in their area, fast food, Asian, Indian, etc., everyone there is Spanish speaking. So the fact that your first language is Spanish, do you think that may be why YOU aren't having any problems? Or are you honestly telling me that when you converse with these people who's first language is also Spanish that you are talking to each other in English?

If you had been to the Arlington/Dallas area, specially to the Asian areas, where the signs on the stores are written in Chinese, Vietnamese, or Korean you would realize that Spanish is not very helpful in these areas. Most of these people talk their native language between them and a very broken English to those who do not speak their language. Yet, I have never had problems ordering food.

If I see people who are talking in Spanish I would likely talk to them in Spanish as well, here in Michigan, when people hear me talking Spanish they would try their best to also talk in Spanish, even though I started the interaction in English. A lot of people are learning it and like to practice. The only people who complain are people who are intolerant of other cultures, and who has no desire to learn about other languages.

If you live in a area that speaks predominantly in Spanish, it should take you no time to learn enough Spanish to order your food. Usually the person taking your order is not trying to brush you of, but trying to communicate with you with the best of your ability.


When I was working in the I.T. area, several of our customers where in Brazil, I do not speak Portuguese, and a lo of them do not speak Spanish. But since a lot of times there was not Portuguese speaker available, both of us would make an effort to speak slowly and try to use as many words in the other language as we could to make communication possible. And more often than not we were able to solve technical problems, over the phone, speaking in two different languages. (Provided the languages are somewhat similar). I don't see how ordering fast food, face-to-face would be impossible to someone who speaks little English.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by Kellem

If you had been to the Arlington/Dallas area, specially to the Asian areas, where the signs on the stores are written in Chinese, Vietnamese, or Korean you would realize that Spanish is not very helpful in these areas. Most of these people talk their native language between them and a very broken English to those who do not speak their language. Yet, I have never had problems ordering food.

If I see people who are talking in Spanish I would likely talk to them in Spanish as well, here in Michigan, when people hear me talking Spanish they would try their best to also talk in Spanish, even though I started the interaction in English. A lot of people are learning it and like to practice. The only people who complain are people who are intolerant of other cultures, and who has no desire to learn about other languages.

If you live in a area that speaks predominantly in Spanish, it should take you no time to learn enough Spanish to order your food. Usually the person taking your order is not trying to brush you of, but trying to communicate with you with the best of your ability.


When I was working in the I.T. area, several of our customers where in Brazil, I do not speak Portuguese, and a lo of them do not speak Spanish. But since a lot of times there was not Portuguese speaker available, both of us would make an effort to speak slowly and try to use as many words in the other language as we could to make communication possible. And more often than not we were able to solve technical problems, over the phone, speaking in two different languages. (Provided the languages are somewhat similar). I don't see how ordering fast food, face-to-face would be impossible to someone who speaks little English.

Oh, I love it. Because I complain that Latino fast food workers in an area that is NOT predominantly Hispanic often cannot speak English, I am all of a sudden intolerant and lack the desire to learn about the world around me.

I speak more than one language, Kellem. I was raised speaking multiple languages. However, I should not have to ever speak in Spanish to someone in the United States wearing a Wendy's shirt. If you are in a customer-facing role in this country, your English should be fluent at an absolute minimum.

[Kellem]

Originally Posted by BigDGeek

Oh, I love it. Because I complain that Latino fast food workers in an area that is NOT predominantly Hispanic often cannot speak English, I am all of a sudden intolerant and lack the desire to learn about the world around me.

I speak more than one language, Kellem. I was raised speaking multiple languages. However, I should not have to ever speak in Spanish to someone in the United States wearing a Wendy's shirt. If you are in a customer-facing role in this country, your English should be fluent at an absolute minimum.

It was a business decision to put that person in the customer-facing role. The hiring manager consider that the person on the position could do the job satisfactorily. If you don't like their decision on how to run their business, then take your business somewhere else. If you want you #1 combo from that Wendy's without pickle and extra mayo, you better put some effort into trying to communicate that to the people who work there. Again, or you can take your business to a different Wendy's who hires people who speak more to your liking.

Maybe the owners/hiring managers of that particular Wendy's, simply, do not value your business; therefore, accommodating your needs is not in their priorities. It is a business, they can run it however they want.

And Puerto Rico is part of the U.S., would you expect all customer facing Wendy's workers in Puerto Rico to speak fluent English as well?

As a business owner, I look at my customers demographics and then decide what are the minimum requirements for each position. Even though I do require most people who work for me to be able to communicate in English since most of my businesses are in areas with a large population of English speakers, I do not see it as a blanket statement to require all customer-facing positions to speak fluent English.

[SimpleMan]

Originally Posted by Kellem

If you had been to the Arlington/Dallas area, specially to the Asian areas, where the signs on the stores are written in Chinese, Vietnamese, or Korean you would realize that Spanish is not very helpful in these areas. Most of these people talk their native language between them and a very broken English to those who do not speak their language. Yet, I have never had problems ordering food.

No, I have not been there, I was repeating the complaints of others on this board. Having grown up in the bay area, there is a large population of Asians/East Indians, many of the stores have signs in Chinese/Japanese/Tagalogue/Punjabi etc., but NEVER ONCE have I had the problem of them not being able to speak enough English to communicate with me. It might be broken English, sometimes with a heavy accent, but English none the less, enough to earn my respect. I run into the problem with Spanish speakers not able to speak any English EVERYDAY.

Originally Posted by Kellem

If I see people who are talking in Spanish I would likely talk to them in Spanish as well, here in Michigan, when people hear me talking Spanish they would try their best to also talk in Spanish, even though I started the interaction in English. A lot of people are learning it and like to practice. The only people who complain are people who are intolerant of other cultures, and who has no desire to learn about other languages.

Describes the vast majority of ILLEGALS very well, doesn't it?

Originally Posted by Kellem

If you live in a area that speaks predominantly in Spanish, it should take you no time to learn enough Spanish to order your food. Usually the person taking your order is not trying to brush you of, but trying to communicate with you with the best of your ability.

When I go to Mexico, El Salvador or Spain, I'll make an attempt to learn enough Spanish to communicate. Here in the USA, if the people at businesses can't speak enough English to take my order, they shouldn't have that position, PERIOD.

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by Kellem

It was a business decision to put that person in the customer-facing role. The hiring manager consider that the person on the position could do the job satisfactorily. If you don't like their decision on how to run their business, then take your business somewhere else. If you want you #1 combo from that Wendy's without pickle and extra mayo, you better put some effort into trying to communicate that to the people who work there. Again, or you can take your business to a different Wendy's who hires people who speak more to your liking.

That is what I did. In fact I no longer patronize fast food restaurants in this area. One of the reasons is that fast food is bad for you, but also because I got sick of being forced to repeat everything in Spanish. Also, do not tell me what I "better" do. They BETTER learn English, or they BETTER go the hell home. They do not belong here. Very few Latinos grow up here and are unable to speak English. If you cannot speak English, it is an excellent bet that you are ILLEGAL.

Maybe the owners/hiring managers of that particular Wendy's, simply, do not value your business; therefore, accommodating your needs is not in their priorities. It is a business, they can run it however they want.

Nobody values anybody's business anymore, they only care about profit. That is why they exploit illegal labor, something you seem to be 100% in favor of.

And Puerto Rico is part of the U.S., would you expect all customer facing Wendy's workers in Puerto Rico to speak fluent English as well?

That is a ridiculous analogy. Puerto Rico is only a territory, and I have yet to meet a Puerto Rican who does not speak fluent English.

As a business owner, I look at my customers demographics and then decide what are the minimum requirements for each position. Even though I do require most people who work for me to be able to communicate in English since most of my businesses are in areas with a large population of English speakers, I do not see it as a blanket statement to require all customer-facing positions to speak fluent English.

Then I am glad I will not be patronizing your business. It makes me sick that business owners here think that the ability to communicate with Americans is not important. Your reasons for being pro-illegal are coming to the surface now; you are one of those business owners who values profit to the point where you are probably willing to hire illegal labor to increase those profits, aren't you?

Looks like the emperor has no clothes. Do not even attempt to sway us with sob stories; your reasons for being pro-illegal are abundantly clear and they have nothing to do with compassion.

[Kellem]

Originally Posted by SimpleMan

No, I have not been there, I was repeating the complaints of others on this board. Having grown up in the bay area, there is a large population of Asians/East Indians, many of the stores have signs in Chinese/Japanese/Tagalogue/Punjabi etc., but NEVER ONCE have I had the problem of them not being able to speak enough English to communicate with me. It might be broken English, sometimes with a heavy accent, but English none the less, enough to earn my respect. I run into the problem with Spanish speakers not able to speak any English EVERYDAY.

I have run into Asians who speak so little English that it's easier to point at the menu item than to try to tell them what you want. I probably should back off a little from you guys, because in my experience I hardly have met anyone who does not speak any English in a fast food place, and I have lived in Phoenix, AZ, Austin, TX, and have visited quite a few places in the U.S., it might be because even though I do not look Mexican, or Hispanic (for some) I am and when I get talked to in Spanish I have no problem switching over. Maybe your experience is different from mine, and have run into people who do not speak a lick of English and make no effort to learn.

Describes the vast majority of ILLEGALS very well, doesn't it?

No it does not, at least to my experience, again I have lived in Austin and Phoenix, and traveled through most of souther california, most illegals I know speak at least broken English.

Even my granfather who is not even an illegal, likes to spend a large portion of the year here in the U.S., stays at my house and travels around, he comes in a tourist visa, and volunteers at Goodwill taking donations, just because he likes to be active. He cannot communicate in English at all, he knows some words and he tries to talk to people in English as much as he cans, but it's mostly gestures and trying to learn some new words. English only speakers have no problem working with him and treat him really well, I have never had him complain about someone being rude to him because of his inability to speak fluent English.

When I go to Mexico, El Salvador or Spain, I'll make an attempt to learn enough Spanish to communicate. Here in the USA, if the people at businesses can't speak enough English to take my order, they shouldn't have that position, PERIOD.

Again, it is a business decision, hey hiring manager evaluated their communication skills and they determined that they were good enough to serve the demographic they are interested in.

Also, Would you make an attempt to learn enough Spanish to communicate if you go to Puerto Rico?

[BigDGeek]

Originally Posted by Kellem

Also, Would you make an attempt to learn enough Spanish to communicate if you go to Puerto Rico?

I had no problems communicating with hotel staff in Mexico who did not speak any English at all. I know you want to think of me as the "ugly American" who travels and does not bother to learn a word of the local language but you would be very, very, very wrong to assume that. If all you speak is Spanish and English, I already speak more languages than you do.

[SimpleMan]

Originally Posted by Kellem

No it does not, at least to my experience, again I have lived in Austin and Phoenix, and traveled through most of souther california, most illegals I know speak at least broken English.

Probably 2 out of 5 times I go to McDonalds in my town, there will be someone ahead of me who when asked by the cashier "May I take your order", they say "Espanol?". Can't even learn enough English to order a damn happy meal. But then again, since you have to learn basic English to pass the citizenship exam, it's wrong of me to assume that these people are illegals, isn't it?

Originally Posted by Kellem

Even my granfather who is not even an illegal, likes to spend a large portion of the year here in the U.S., stays at my house and travels around, he comes in a tourist visa, and volunteers at Goodwill taking donations, just because he likes to be active. He cannot communicate in English at all, he knows some words and he tries to talk to people in English as much as he cans, but it's mostly gestures and trying to learn some new words. English only speakers have no problem working with him and treat him really well, I have never had him complain about someone being rude to him because of his inability to speak fluent English.

As a VISITOR, not someone who illegally lives here, he gets an A+ from me for the attempt.

Originally Posted by Kellem

Again, it is a business decision, hey hiring manager evaluated their communication skills and they determined that they were good enough to serve the demographic they are interested in.

As an American teenager, would you want to work in a restaurant filled with people you can't communicate with and treat you like crap? Probably not. The managers either don't have other people applying, barely speaks English themself, or are in a hispanic majority area (which seems to be everywhere in CA from Napa down) of which many of them use Spanish as a primary language.

So just so I have your opinion straight; I should learn Spanish. Spanish speaking people do not have to learn English if they don't want to. If I don't like the fact that I cannot communicate with a Spanish only speaking person at a business in the USA, I should take my business elsewhere. If I don't like the fact that Spanish only speaking people are taking over my community, I should move. Viva la Raza I guess, or should I say, Viva la Reconquista.

Originally Posted by Kellem

Also, Would you make an attempt to learn enough Spanish to communicate if you go to Puerto Rico?

Spanish and English are BOTH official languages of Puerto Rico. That's like me asking if you're going to visit Montreal, are you going to learn enough French to communicate.

[Kellem]

Originally Posted by SimpleMan

Probably 2 out of 5 times I go to McDonalds in my town, there will be someone ahead of me who when asked by the cashier "May I take your order", they say "Espanol?". Can't even learn enough English to order a damn happy meal. But then again, since you have to learn basic English to pass the citizenship exam, it's wrong of me to assume that these people are illegals, isn't it?

They might now enough English to communicate but may feel more comfortable speaking Spanish. They may have just arrived and are learning English. Maybe they can order a happy meal but they want their burger, with no onions, extra pickles, double mayo and no ketchup, and they would like their drink exchanged for a smoothie or milkshake; and well they don't know how to effectively communicate all that to the cashier, and would rather talk to the cashier in Spanish.

When I call a business and I have the option to speak to someone in Spanish I do so, I have no problem speaking in English but it's nice from time to time to speak with someone in Spanish.

And for the highlighted area, yes, I think you need to know basic English to pass the citizenship test, but not everyone who is here legally has to take the citizenship test. To get a tourist visa you do not need to take the citizenship test, to get a permanent residence you do not need to take the citizenship test. I would say that most if not all of tourists and legal permanent have not had to take the citizenship test. And they are not illegals.

As a VISITOR, not someone who illegally lives here, he gets an A+ from me for the attempt.



As an American teenager, would you want to work in a restaurant filled with people you can't communicate with and treat you like crap? Probably not. The managers either don't have other people applying, barely speaks English themself, or are in a hispanic majority area (which seems to be everywhere in CA from Napa down) of which many of them use Spanish as a primary language.

If I was an American teenager, I would take the opportunity to learn a different language. And I will not let them treat me like crap. I would probably tell the manage who barely speaks English that I would like to learn Spanish from them.

So just so I have your opinion straight;

I should learn Spanish.

I think you should, it comes in useful, specially when living surrounded with people who do so. Do you must? Do I think your are required to? No, I think it's up to you if you want to wake advantage of your environment or not.

Spanish speaking people do not have to learn English if they don't want to.

Same as with you, I don't think they must learn English. Do I think it's stupid not to learn English while in the U.S.? Of course, you have all you need to learn it including people to practice it with. Not trying to learning it borders on negligence. But again I have as example my grandparents, they come here for six month at a time every so often, i try to get them into classes or teach them myself, but they do not retain much so its hard for them to learn it. Do they must learn? No. Should they try? Sure.

If I don't like the fact that I cannot communicate with a Spanish only speaking person at a business in the USA, I should take my business elsewhere.

Sure, I would not support a business that does not accomodate my needs. Their loss. Unless I can't get my product/service from somewhere else I would avoid them. And if someone else comes along that acomodates my needs I am likely to switch to the new provider. Businesses are there to make money, and they take the decisions that they think are correct for them to make money. If I don't agree with their decisions I don't make business with them. If enough people dont agree with their decision and don't make business with them, then they lose money, and they re-evaluate their decision. If you just get angry and but keep doing business with them, then, what motivation do they have to change?

If I don't like the fact that Spanish only speaking people are taking over my community, I should move.

You can move, you can learn Spanish, you can entice other English speaking people to move to your community, you can volunteer at a program that teaches people English at the library or similar. You can do whatever you want in order to influence your environments or adapt to them. I just don't think complaining about people speaking a different language, and thinking that business should be force to accomodate your needs it's the right way to do so, except in exceptional cases, as in ADA regulations.

Viva la Raza I guess, or should I say, Viva la Reconquista.

What ever rocks your boat.

Spanish and English are BOTH official languages of Puerto Rico. That's like me asking if you're going to visit Montreal, are you going to learn enough French to communicate.

The fact that they are both official languages does not mean everyone speaks both of the languages. I have been to Puerto Rico several times, and in one of the hotels that we stayed in, it was owned by a retired couple from the U.S. who just had gotten there and their Spanish skills were far from fluent. Yet in another shops, the customer-facing people did not speak English. I still do not see why customer-facing positions should be required to speak the official languages of the place, would you like to be rejected from a job in Puerto Rico because you do not speak Spanish? It should all be left at the business discetion. Again if they make the wrong choices, they will feel it in their bank account.

And if I would go to Montreal I would try to sharpen my French skills, what better place to practice my French than in a French speaking city. And I would definitely not expect every single individual in a customer-facing position to be able to speak English to me.


What would you do in the case that all of those people are legalized? I am aware that several of you do not think this is going to happen, but it IS a possibility. Are you still going to resist learning Spanish, I would think that if you are so immersed into it, it would take you no time to learn it. The way I learned English was by coming here when I was 10-12 and signed up for classes at the local school, not ESL or English, but literature, history and math. At the beginning they were hard but if you are in that environment all the time you learn much faster than by reading a book or taking a class.