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Old 06-27-2009, 06:26 PM
 
7 posts, read 16,670 times
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do you? i seem to think that users such as mori-vivi, leftydan6, zacatecana, blacknight04, antialphabet, the one, ac213, and many others seem to support it.

isn't illegal immigration illegal? why do they support it?
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Old 06-27-2009, 09:18 PM
 
8,978 posts, read 16,523,313 times
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I'm convinced that virtually ALL supporters of illegal immigration fall into one of four categories:

1..Those who feel a sense of guilt toward the downtrodden, benighted denizens of Third World nations, as if to say "They have so little, and here, we have so MUCH;"..therefore, allowing illegal immigrants in is the 'moral' thing to do. Some of this borders on a sort of 'soft racism' which states, in effect, that "These people aren't sophisticated, like we are; they don't understand our laws; they're only here because we LURED the here"...therefore, illegal immigration isn't the "fault" of the illegals. The Catholic Church (of which I'm a member) comes pretty close to this position, as do numerous other organizations and individuals.

2. Ethnic Solidarity...many people see illegal immigration in the US as a "Mexican" issue...and see supporting illegals as supporting the "cause" of the Mexican community. Those who are somehow allied with this community by ancestry or family ties or friendship may feel compelled to act accordingly, or suffer the 'guilt' of not doing so. As long as illegal immigration can be made an "ethnic" issue, many people will support it, OR OPPOSE it, along ethnic lines, and for no other reason. Any issue that can be made a 'racial' issue will generate VERY strong arguments, regardless of any other factors which may be involved.

3. On the other hand, some people just enjoy "antagonizing" the 'average citizen'. These folks just LOVE to side with the 'underdog', and will do so, regardless of the merits of the case. These folks will support illegal immigration (or just about any OTHER unpopular cause), for the sheer joy of infuriating their fellow citizens. It's fun.

4. Lastly, there are those who claim to oppose illegal immigration, yet will tolerate NO ideas of actually doing anything to stop it.

There may be a few others, but in my opinion, the vast majority of 'pro-illegals' fit one or more of these 4 categories.
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Old 06-27-2009, 10:20 PM
 
380 posts, read 707,932 times
Reputation: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I'm convinced that virtually ALL supporters of illegal immigration fall into one of four categories:

1..Those who feel a sense of guilt toward the downtrodden, benighted denizens of Third World nations, as if to say "They have so little, and here, we have so MUCH;"..therefore, allowing illegal immigrants in is the 'moral' thing to do. Some of this borders on a sort of 'soft racism' which states, in effect, that "These people aren't sophisticated, like we are; they don't understand our laws; they're only here because we LURED the here"...therefore, illegal immigration isn't the "fault" of the illegals. The Catholic Church (of which I'm a member) comes pretty close to this position, as do numerous other organizations and individuals.

2. Ethnic Solidarity...many people see illegal immigration in the US as a "Mexican" issue...and see supporting illegals as supporting the "cause" of the Mexican community. Those who are somehow allied with this community by ancestry or family ties or friendship may feel compelled to act accordingly, or suffer the 'guilt' of not doing so. As long as illegal immigration can be made an "ethnic" issue, many people will support it, OR OPPOSE it, along ethnic lines, and for no other reason. Any issue that can be made a 'racial' issue will generate VERY strong arguments, regardless of any other factors which may be involved.

3. On the other hand, some people just enjoy "antagonizing" the 'average citizen'. These folks just LOVE to side with the 'underdog', and will do so, regardless of the merits of the case. These folks will support illegal immigration (or just about any OTHER unpopular cause), for the sheer joy of infuriating their fellow citizens. It's fun.

4. Lastly, there are those who claim to oppose illegal immigration, yet will tolerate NO ideas of actually doing anything to stop it.

There may be a few others, but in my opinion, the vast majority of 'pro-illegals' fit one or more of these 4 categories.
I think you are not quite hitting the mark with #3. But first let me say this: There are many people who oppose illegal immigration. That group then seems seems to split into two general subdivisions: one that opposes illegal immigration like they oppose anything else, they let their ideas be known and they go on with their lives. The others are fanatical about it. They claim that illegal immigration is somehow compromising the moral fiber of our country, they use illegal immigrants as scapegoats and tend to simplify complicated issues by just blaming it on illegals. When listening to them they seem to take illegal immigration as a personal affront. These are people that America has been good to. They have pursued hapiness and found it. These people tend to look down upon poor Americans also and if someone is poor or on welfare they think "it's their own fault." Concerning #3 of you analysis: there are people that have worked hard in this country and have not gotten very far, through no fault of their own. There are people that just do not have a strong sense of identity in America, people who have been exploited or have had to deal with adversity from the day they were born. To have rich people you have to have poor people. Their are some in the middle but they are becoming extinct slowly but surely. So it is not that they are rooting for the underdog or like to **** people off. It's called empathy, different from sympathy. Would you go to any lengths to better yourself and your family? Would you care if you had to cross a border secretly to feed your family? I think many people who support amnesty are looking at the issue from more of a social perspective. And then for some people national identity and political boundries are not as sacred as they are for others.
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Old 06-28-2009, 10:04 AM
 
27 posts, read 39,387 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by contachster View Post
I think you are not quite hitting the mark with #3. But first let me say this: There are many people who oppose illegal immigration. That group then seems seems to split into two general subdivisions: one that opposes illegal immigration like they oppose anything else, they let their ideas be known and they go on with their lives. The others are fanatical about it. They claim that illegal immigration is somehow compromising the moral fiber of our country, they use illegal immigrants as scapegoats and tend to simplify complicated issues by just blaming it on illegals. When listening to them they seem to take illegal immigration as a personal affront. These are people that America has been good to. They have pursued hapiness and found it. These people tend to look down upon poor Americans also and if someone is poor or on welfare they think "it's their own fault." Concerning #3 of you analysis: there are people that have worked hard in this country and have not gotten very far, through no fault of their own. There are people that just do not have a strong sense of identity in America, people who have been exploited or have had to deal with adversity from the day they were born. To have rich people you have to have poor people. Their are some in the middle but they are becoming extinct slowly but surely. So it is not that they are rooting for the underdog or like to **** people off. It's called empathy, different from sympathy. Would you go to any lengths to better yourself and your family? Would you care if you had to cross a border secretly to feed your family? I think many people who support amnesty are looking at the issue from more of a social perspective. And then for some people national identity and political boundries are not as sacred as they are for others.

True.
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Old 06-28-2009, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,171 posts, read 18,514,593 times
Reputation: 3044
As usual, no pro-illegal has explained why they support illegal immigration. They simply vilify those who oppose it. How does one support something they can’t even defend?

The OP didn’t ask for opinions of opponents of illegal immigration. The question posed is, “Why do YOU support illegal immigration?â€
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Old 06-28-2009, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Texas
14,975 posts, read 16,413,606 times
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I don't think all of the posters you mentioned support illegal immigration. A few do, but I think the rest are simply be less opposed to it than everyone else.

As far as answering the question posed in the thread title, I, for one, am strongly AGAINST illegal immigration. The illegal parasites need to be sent home as fast as possible.
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Old 06-28-2009, 12:16 PM
 
380 posts, read 707,932 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
As usual, no pro-illegal has explained why they support illegal immigration. They simply vilify those who oppose it. How does one support something they can’t even defend?

The OP didn’t ask for opinions of opponents of illegal immigration. The question posed is, “Why do YOU support illegal immigration?â€
I tried to explain it thoroughly but to the point. I'll try again. The US government allows illegal immigration. They will continue to allow it until it no longer suits a purpose. This capitalist system needs very cheap labor to build houses, and perform menial tasks in large industry that no American seems to want to do. Mexicans (majority of illegal immigrants) are willing to do this. One hand is washing the other. If any person thinks for one second that the government could not stop 99% of illegal immigrants tomorrow they are naive.
That being said, if my government is allowing this to happen as a means to an end I will take a closer look at the issue. I was born and raised in a poor city. From day one I have dealt with adversity, racism, being economically disadvantaged, among other things. I seem to have had to work harder than other Americans to achieve what little I have. This is nobodies fault it's just the way it is in this country. I am not overly patriotic although I enjoy living here. I would never say this is the best country in the world because I can't honestly say that I know this to be true. Some other countries look like pretty nice places to live particularly the Scandanavian countries. National and political boundries are not all that important to me. If someone wants to cross a border and work and better themselves I think they should be able to move freely. If a government chooses to be hipocritical and allow something to happen that is against their own laws so they can better themselves economically I really don't care.
The reality is this: the US government will continue to allow undocumented Mexicans to flood across the southern border of this country. They will continue to bamboozle opponents of illegal immigration with their joke of a border patrol and ICE depts. They will round up a few here and there and raid a factory here and there to make it look like they actually care. Within the next 10 years there will be amnesty and then the game will start all over again.
All this can be summed up by my following statement: I have no problem with Mexicans or other immigrants coming to this country to work. The US government has made it impossible for them to come legally. I know many undocumented immigrant families here in NJ and they have breathed new life into fotgotten, drug infested, and dangerous neighborhoods. From my perspective they have done more good than harm in my community. I tried to explain a complicated issues as thoroughly and simply as possible. So that is why I support any immigrant that wants to come here.
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Old 06-28-2009, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Reeds Spring, MO
974 posts, read 1,583,107 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by contachster View Post
I tried to explain it thoroughly but to the point. I'll try again. The US government allows illegal immigration. They will continue to allow it until it no longer suits a purpose. This capitalist system needs very cheap labor to build houses, and perform menial tasks in large industry that no American seems to want to do. Mexicans (majority of illegal immigrants) are willing to do this. One hand is washing the other. If any person thinks for one second that the government could not stop 99% of illegal immigrants tomorrow they are naive.
That being said, if my government is allowing this to happen as a means to an end I will take a closer look at the issue. I was born and raised in a poor city. From day one I have dealt with adversity, racism, being economically disadvantaged, among other things. I seem to have had to work harder than other Americans to achieve what little I have. This is nobodies fault it's just the way it is in this country. I am not overly patriotic although I enjoy living here. I would never say this is the best country in the world because I can't honestly say that I know this to be true. Some other countries look like pretty nice places to live particularly the Scandanavian countries. National and political boundries are not all that important to me. If someone wants to cross a border and work and better themselves I think they should be able to move freely. If a government chooses to be hipocritical and allow something to happen that is against their own laws so they can better themselves economically I really don't care.
The reality is this: the US government will continue to allow undocumented Mexicans to flood across the southern border of this country. They will continue to bamboozle opponents of illegal immigration with their joke of a border patrol and ICE depts. They will round up a few here and there and raid a factory here and there to make it look like they actually care. Within the next 10 years there will be amnesty and then the game will start all over again.
All this can be summed up by my following statement: I have no problem with Mexicans or other immigrants coming to this country to work. The US government has made it impossible for them to come legally. I know many undocumented immigrant families here in NJ and they have breathed new life into fotgotten, drug infested, and dangerous neighborhoods. From my perspective they have done more good than harm in my community. I tried to explain a complicated issues as thoroughly and simply as possible. So that is why I support any immigrant that wants to come here.

The part I have put in bold is what bothers me. What jobs Americans will not do? At this time, Americans will do anything to feed their families. I happen to be one of them. I will however not work for 6 bucks an hour while the contractor is making 30 bucks an hour off of me. Fair compensation. There is one word to describe why employers hire illegals... GREED. That is it. It comes down to how much money can I make by cutting corners, working dangerously, and paying a bare minimum while charging a maximum.
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Old 06-28-2009, 01:29 PM
 
380 posts, read 707,932 times
Reputation: 210
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ciaerin View Post
The part I have put in bold is what bothers me. What jobs Americans will not do? At this time, Americans will do anything to feed their families. I happen to be one of them. I will however not work for 6 bucks an hour while the contractor is making 30 bucks an hour off of me. Fair compensation. There is one word to describe why employers hire illegals... GREED. That is it. It comes down to how much money can I make by cutting corners, working dangerously, and paying a bare minimum while charging a maximum.
You are absolutely right my friend. GREED. Greed is what got this country where it is right now. That's why I laugh when people attack illegals and use them as a scapegoat for everything. They did not create this situation. In my opinion the US government is in cahootz with large industry and therefore this situation was created. I see it intelligently for what it is and place the blame squrely on the government and GREEDY people. Why cant the government create a guest worker program for some jobs and enforce the immigration laws? Because people can make more money off the current system. Like you said: GREED
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Old 06-28-2009, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 19,375,905 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by contachster View Post
I tried to explain it thoroughly but to the point. I'll try again. The US government allows illegal immigration. They will continue to allow it until it no longer suits a purpose. This capitalist system needs very cheap labor to build houses, and perform menial tasks in large industry that no American seems to want to do. Mexicans (majority of illegal immigrants) are willing to do this. One hand is washing the other. If any person thinks for one second that the government could not stop 99% of illegal immigrants tomorrow they are naive.
That being said, if my government is allowing this to happen as a means to an end I will take a closer look at the issue. I was born and raised in a poor city. From day one I have dealt with adversity, racism, being economically disadvantaged, among other things. I seem to have had to work harder than other Americans to achieve what little I have. This is nobodies fault it's just the way it is in this country. I am not overly patriotic although I enjoy living here. I would never say this is the best country in the world because I can't honestly say that I know this to be true. Some other countries look like pretty nice places to live particularly the Scandanavian countries. National and political boundries are not all that important to me. If someone wants to cross a border and work and better themselves I think they should be able to move freely. If a government chooses to be hipocritical and allow something to happen that is against their own laws so they can better themselves economically I really don't care.
The reality is this: the US government will continue to allow undocumented Mexicans to flood across the southern border of this country. They will continue to bamboozle opponents of illegal immigration with their joke of a border patrol and ICE depts. They will round up a few here and there and raid a factory here and there to make it look like they actually care. Within the next 10 years there will be amnesty and then the game will start all over again.
Quote:
All this can be summed up by my following statement: I have no problem with Mexicans or other immigrants coming to this country to work. The US government has made it impossible for them to come legally. I know many undocumented immigrant families here in NJ and they have breathed new life into fotgotten, drug infested, and dangerous neighborhoods. From my perspective they have done more good than harm in my community. I tried to explain a complicated issues as thoroughly and simply as possible. So that is why I support any immigrant that wants to come here.
So your saying that, what you've seen of illegal Immigration in NJ sums up the whole story?
In other words, illegal immigration has never actually effected your life or your way of living.
I can understand that, but illegal immigrants are on both sides of this country.
In fact, many who support illegals are those who either benefit from it, theyre still young or they're in a position to where illegal immigration hasn't phased them one bit. Their argument is a one sided story because.......
How is a person that is uneffected going to know what it's like to be effected and know or tell both sides of the story?
You need to be in the middle of it and effected by illegals in order to actually know what's going on and what the main issue it's all about.

If you ask me, I'd say supporting illegal immigartion is more sympathetic than anything.

Last edited by mkfarnam; 06-28-2009 at 02:13 PM..
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