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Old 07-03-2009, 06:56 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,044,409 times
Reputation: 17688

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That's more than some States entire population. Just think about how fast our larger Cities would grow and the part of each that would be living in poverty. How can we possibly justify adding near 1.5 million people a year (that number includes the factor that we don't know how many slip by Law Enforcement but it is most likely a large number.)


U.S. names 'border czar' to monitor U.S.-Mexico line - USATODAY.com
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Old 07-03-2009, 06:59 PM
 
254 posts, read 417,006 times
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It should be a criminal felony to cross the border. I suggest we put up thousands of miles of electric fence and a substantial military force on the border. Shoot everything that isn't getting in the right way.
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Old 07-03-2009, 07:42 PM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,747,253 times
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Below is a quote from "macmeal" from another thread in this forum.

I think he sums it up brilliantly.


Once again, Travelling Fella, you're a "good guy", but I'm not sure how relevant this is to the average US citizen here in 2009. As AB has stated, there's a huge difference between legalizing "tens of thousands" of people, and legalizing multiple millions. I do NOT personally believe for a moment that if the US, today, were discussing the fate of 30 or 40 thousand illegals, that this forum would be anywhere near as contentious as it is....in fact, it probably wouldn't even exist.

Here's my only 'original' thought in the matter...you, as well as others, have mentioned the fact that "immigrating (to the US) legally today is practically impossible". I doubt this is literally true...perhaps it's hard for uneducated people to come here at will, legally, whenever they feel like it, in the numbers they'd like...however, we still take in HUGE numbers of legal immigrants, so that claim is debatable.

However, for the sake of argument, let's say that the US has, in fact, made legal immigration more difficult than it was 2 or 3 generations ago. Even if this is true, is it necessarily surprising? The US has served as the 'default' destination for "migrants" of all descriptions for at least a century and a half...since LONG before most nations were interested in 'taking in' foreigners. The US was seen as the 'goal' of just about anyone who had the means to walk, sail, or hitch hike here, and it was pretty much an 'open house' for most of that time, for MOST people..to a degree not seen in most OTHER 'host nations'.

Just as a thought for discussion, is it possible that now it's reached the point that times have changed?...that maybe we CAN'T continue to do this, forever?...that there's a practical...or economic...or even a MORAL limit to our 'responsibility' for the world's poor? Is it our "duty" as a society to 'take people in'?..or is it our duty to, at some point, look out for ourselves?

Remember, if legal immigration is now getting "nearly impossible"(?), it's not the ONLY thing in that category. At one time in our past, an uneducated family of 'fresh-off-the-boat' immigrants could claim 160 acres of land, FREE, just by settling there and farming it. Today, this is impossible..the land has 'run out'. At one time, any man able to swing a pick could apply for a 'grunt job'...no education, no English, nothing required...and earn enough money to support a wife and 6 kids, without assistance. Today, this is impossible. At one time, you could build a house any way you liked...no plans, no 'codes'..cut trees, hunt game, etc etc. Today, living in this way is virtually impossible.

My point is not to go on and on..only that, as times change and societies evolve, things also change. Is it possible that in addition to the above changes, ANOTHER change might be that the modern USA is gradually leaving behind its position as a "net importer" of immigrants....or at least 'slowing down'.?

No reasonable person would ever expect India...or China....or Saudi Arabia....or Uzbekhistan...or Pakistan...to ever become a destination for mass immigration. Why? For all SORTS of reasons, I suppose. My only question is, how different are we, here, today? I don't know, but it's a fair question.

Meanwhile, I'll conclude with this thought....how would Brazil feel, as a society, if THEY were dealing with 7, 8, or 9 million illegals? How would THEY feel if they were presently 'housing' 20 percent of the population of Bolivia or Peru? Maybe they'd be 'cheerful' about it.....or maybe not.

Hats off to Brazil for legalizing 'tens of thousands' of illegals, rather than persecuting them. But I'm not sure how far this point applies to our own situation here.

The best to you, T Fella.
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Old 07-03-2009, 07:57 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,044,409 times
Reputation: 17688
Our first large amnesty was a few million, this latest debate is 12-20? What's the next one in 20 years? 50-70 Million? If we have so many people that there is no farm land left where do we grow our food? I don't see a sustainable model with this kind of human over-populaton.
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Old 07-03-2009, 08:30 PM
 
Location: California
706 posts, read 796,204 times
Reputation: 179
" How can we possibly justify adding near 1.5 million people a year"

1ANGRY......We don't justify it. "They" justify it for "us"... "The Consent of the Governed" seems to have lost its meaning today....And most people do not really care.

Things will come to a head though....but I'm not sure if I will welcome the results.

BL
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Old 07-03-2009, 08:39 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by borderlord View Post
" How can we possibly justify adding near 1.5 million people a year"

1ANGRY......We don't justify it. "They" justify it for "us"... "The Consent of the Governed" seems to have lost its meaning today....And most people do not really care.

Things will come to a head though....but I'm not sure if I will welcome the results.

BL
I am sensing what you fear as well-----------unless the stupids in Wash DC grow up and start supporting Americans over illegal aliens.
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Old 07-03-2009, 08:50 PM
 
Location: California
706 posts, read 796,204 times
Reputation: 179
"unless the stupids in Wash DC grow up and start supporting Americans over illegal aliens"

I'm not so concerned so much with the "stupids" in D.C. (District of Corruption) as I am with the people who "pull the strings"

Why are the "Fluff and Buffy" types in the MSM not really reporting the news ? What has become of journalistic integrity ?

Regards,

BL
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Old 07-05-2009, 01:13 AM
 
841 posts, read 790,007 times
Reputation: 186
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
That's more than some States entire population. Just think about how fast our larger Cities would grow and the part of each that would be living in poverty. How can we possibly justify adding near 1.5 million people a year (that number includes the factor that we don't know how many slip by Law Enforcement but it is most likely a large number.)


U.S. names 'border czar' to monitor U.S.-Mexico line - USATODAY.com
This is what the census states, and was up to 900,000 a few years ago. Of course these are only estimates. They say 12 million illegals here, but this number is claimed every year since 2005. I'm against both legal and illegal immigration to America because they way overpopulated us, things need to thin out to what America used to be about 15 years ago. Government stole that life from us.
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Old 07-06-2009, 03:04 PM
 
1,150 posts, read 991,058 times
Reputation: 369
The thing is there are millions of uneducated, poor people in South and Central America, Africa, Asia, India, the Middle East, and the Baltic States who would like to live here. We can't take them all in. We already have water and electricity shortages in some areas. We have an aging sewer sysytem in most big cities, frequently well over 100 years old, that can barely handle the present load. We have streets, highways and bridges that need repairs, or widening to accomodate increasing traffic. Schools are overcrowdwd, and the waiting time in some emergency rooms is hours. The fact is, we can't accomodate many more people.
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Old 07-06-2009, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by clsicmovies View Post
This is what the census states, and was up to 900,000 a few years ago. Of course these are only estimates. They say 12 million illegals here, but this number is claimed every year since 2005. I'm against both legal and illegal immigration to America because they way overpopulated us, things need to thin out to what America used to be about 15 years ago. Government stole that life from us.
I will say in all fairness that we may have fewer than 12 million illegals here these days............well over 1 million have returned/been deported to Mexico, etc.---------and, many others are thinking about it since there is no work to be had anymore. Plus; scuttlebutt has it that illegal crossings across our southern border are way down----------which I do believe factoring in the ca. $3-5,000 per head charged by the coyotes these days.
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