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Old 07-14-2009, 08:36 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,823 posts, read 30,075,350 times
Reputation: 17698

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Both, but you don't have any control of the liers S of the border.
So we are to watch it happen? Ok, I'm fine with that but I'd like to see the blame shift back to the Mexican Govt instead of this BS about US policy. Can we agree on that?
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Old 07-14-2009, 08:48 PM
 
Location: California
706 posts, read 796,695 times
Reputation: 179
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Huckleberry was being rhetorical stating that illegal alien apologists aid/abet criminals

Thanks, AB,
And thanks HB, for the post
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Old 07-15-2009, 01:06 AM
 
Location: Ann Arbor, MI
804 posts, read 1,175,488 times
Reputation: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
So we are to watch it happen? Ok, I'm fine with that but I'd like to see the blame shift back to the Mexican Govt instead of this BS about US policy. Can we agree on that?
I agree with you in that a great part of the blame lies on the Mexican government (or any other government whose citizens are crossing illegally), but I think the U.S. policy also plays a role, and are to blame, in this problem. And I think just blaming the (Mexican) government in this case is just scapegoating them. And furthermore, by only suggesting that they change their behaviour (by discouraging this act), we fail to acknowledge that U.S. policy needs to be reformed and suggest complacency on the current policy.
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Old 07-15-2009, 04:55 AM
 
3,277 posts, read 4,495,768 times
Reputation: 1908
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
For those who have convinced themselves that this is TRULY their 'Christian duty', then by all means, do it; just realize that in so doing, you're aiding and abetting illegal activity, and take your fines and punishment. It would be little different if one were to offer ladders to 'hungry people' to aid them in entering the homes of rich people, to steal property.....or in offering hungry and homeless people 'pass keys' in order to enter a large warehouse to get at the items inside....or offering grappling hooks to those who wish to hop illegally onto moving freight trains, so they can 'travel in search of work'. If you feel this is your 'duty' to these people, then by all means do it...but prepare to be charged with aiding in a crime by the 'secular authorities'.
You don't need ladders, grappling hooks, or pass keys in order to survive.
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Old 07-15-2009, 05:45 AM
 
Location: 95468
1,383 posts, read 2,065,834 times
Reputation: 937
Quote:
Originally Posted by chielgirl View Post
Would you rather people die?
Because someone is not anti-illegal immigration; does it make them pro-illegal immigration?
Or just a good, person, possibly christian?
If the water was for thirsty republicans you wouldn't be singing that tune.
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Old 07-15-2009, 05:46 AM
 
Location: North Texas
23,618 posts, read 31,183,401 times
Reputation: 26683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Do you think they do not have a sense of the dangers that crossing a dessert poses to them? Again, their motivation is not to cross the desert to get to that container with water. They are going to cross no matter what, so I think it's humane to try to lower the actual danger that the desert poses to them by providing water.
Wrong.

We owe them nothing. They are invading our country illegally. We do not owe them water, we do not owe them sympathy, all we owe them is a bus ride back where they came from.

Once they jump over that fence they take full 100% responsibility for what happens to them out there in the DESERT (not dessert). It is not my problem if they dehydrate to death out there. Nobody put a gun to their heads and forced them to immigrate illegally. On their heads be it.

No sympathy. No water. Keep out.
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Old 07-15-2009, 05:51 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,893,897 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Like you guys say, apple's and oranges, when comparing IA's with petty thiefs. Yet you still have the periodic breaks on the side of the road that make noise when drift off ( usually in the highway) for when you are driving when you should not be. In some state drivers who are driving fatigued can be charged with vehicular homicide if they kill someone.

So do you think those devices in the side of the road set up to "wake-up" people should not be there because they are helping people drive while fatigued?
Actually it is no stretch at all to compare illegals to petty thieves. !00% of all illegals are committing a host of crimes ranging from fraud to tax evasion. 7.5 cents on the dollar for ss alone. Add 3 cents for state tax 1 or more cents for local tax and then add fed taxes not paid. Times that by what ever they earn. Say $100.00 a day. Thats $30.00 a day times say 5. Times 4 weeks per month times 12. That would be grand theft.
Add to the above damage done to those whose ID's have been stolen.
Add to that theft of social services. Its not a petty crime anymore.
Reality sucks when its not in your favor.
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Old 07-15-2009, 08:38 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,621,702 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoarfrost View Post
You don't need ladders, grappling hooks, or pass keys in order to survive.
Correct. And you don't need to illegally enter the US in order to survive, either. It's a personal choice, mostly enabled by the fact that the US simply happens to be where it is. I've known MANY Mexican illegals over MANY years, and I have yet to meet a single one who said that he/ she came here to avoid starvation. The vast majority come simply for an improvement in their standard of living.....no different in many ways from the tens of thousands of Americans who migrated temporarily to Alaska to build the pipeline....except that this was LEGAL, and most of them left after the job was over. So did Mexican migrants, back in the 'bracero' days.

If poor Mexicans 'can't survive' unless they sneak into the US, how would you address the problems of poor Haitians...or poor Congolese....or poor Somalis? Compared to THESE places, Mexico is a prosperous place.
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Old 07-15-2009, 08:43 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,621,702 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kellem View Post
Like you guys say, apple's and oranges, when comparing IA's with petty thiefs. Yet you still have the periodic breaks on the side of the road that make noise when drift off ( usually in the highway) for when you are driving when you should not be. In some state drivers who are driving fatigued can be charged with vehicular homicide if they kill someone.

So do you think those devices in the side of the road set up to "wake-up" people should not be there because they are helping people drive while fatigued?
"Apples and Oranges" times TEN. The "rumble strips" you refer to are put there mostly in the interest of public safety. A sleeping driver could easily drift over and wipe out an entire family of innocent travelers in another vehicle. How this compares with 'enabling petty criminals' while they're engaged in the act of trespassing into the US, is quite a stretch. If you just want to get SILLY, and really feel this is your DUTY....why not just rent a bus, pick up a load of illegals at the border, and DRIVE them north? Of COURSE, you'd be risking legal problems...but at least you'd be following your convictions 'like a man', rather than sneaking around hiding water jugs and playing 'cat and mouse' with the Feds. And wouldn't that risk be worth it.?.....that is, if you REALLY feel it's your moral duty to aid those who are DETERMINED, with or without your help, to get into the USA?

Seems to me that the "bus" method would show a lot more backbone and sincerity than the 'water jug' method, if you're really sincere.
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Old 07-15-2009, 09:11 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,621,702 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Actually it is no stretch at all to compare illegals to petty thieves. !00% of all illegals are committing a host of crimes ranging from fraud to tax evasion. 7.5 cents on the dollar for ss alone. Add 3 cents for state tax 1 or more cents for local tax and then add fed taxes not paid. Times that by what ever they earn. Say $100.00 a day. Thats $30.00 a day times say 5. Times 4 weeks per month times 12. That would be grand theft.
Add to the above damage done to those whose ID's have been stolen.
Add to that theft of social services. Its not a petty crime anymore.
Reality sucks when its not in your favor.
That's true. I've known....worked with...helped, and been helped by....'partied with'....and even been RELATED TO....illegals, for decades. Most have been fine, enjoyable people, on a personal. one-on-one level. At one time, illegals actually DID DO the 'jobs Americans didn't want'....they kept 'below the radar', were GRATEFUL to be HERE and not in Mexico, were cheerful..... and were almost universally 'macho', which meant that most of them were far too 'proud' to accept 'charity' of any kind..including welfare.

Those days are gone. The illegals have changed, their SHEER NUMBERS have exploded, our politicians have changed, and our society can no longer accomodate the constant arrival of new illegals without increasingly serious stress and disruption.

What's happening re: illegal immigration, TODAY, certainly DOES have elements of theft, fraud, and all sorts of other crime inherent in it. It's no longer a 'petty' thing at all...and it can no longer be addressed with a 'wink', either.
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