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Old 08-04-2009, 01:15 AM
 
33 posts, read 35,203 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Looking at our high unemployment rate: the mere presence of the illegals here is more devastating in all fairness.

It would severely injure Mexico in particular if they were forced to take back ca. 6 million of their people plus the minor age US born Anchors of same.

Besides: if we truly needed 'stoop labor'----------why should we use Mexicans? We would be far better off importing Filipinos, E Indians or Africans (Black or White) since they at least speak English off the bat and their culture is closer to ours.

Oh well.
This statement is wayyy off base. It's a very ridiculous thing to say! Filipinos are very similar to Mexican culture. But Filipinos don't speak English. Tagalog.
And both Filipinos and Mexicans are closer to American culture than Indians or Africans. You're claim makes no sense, unless you have some kind of bias toward Mexis.
And why would you choose to import people from halfway across the world before your neighbors? Strange man.
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Old 08-04-2009, 04:29 AM
 
Location: North Texas
23,599 posts, read 31,143,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marigolds6 View Post
How did you know he was illegal and not just a non-English speaking US citizen? For that matter, how do you really know that he did not speak English?
BentBow said it first but he is right, the guy did not understand me and could not form a simple sentence in English. Why would he pretend? Also the other mover and the company they both work for admitted that the guy could not speak any English. If you cannot speak a word of English the odds are good that you have just arrived, and it is not likely that a Spanish-speaking unskilled young man like that would have been granted a visa of any kind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
One of the requirements for becoming a citizen, and getting your citizenship, is, that you can speak English.

I think that is what everyone is getting racial profiling mixed up with. I call it language profiling.


He knew because they couldn't speak a lick of English. They were there. You were not.
100% correct, except for the fact that I am female.
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Old 08-04-2009, 07:10 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynflip View Post
This statement is wayyy off base. It's a very ridiculous thing to say! Filipinos are very similar to Mexican culture. But Filipinos don't speak English. Tagalog.
And both Filipinos and Mexicans are closer to American culture than Indians or Africans. You're claim makes no sense, unless you have some kind of bias toward Mexis.
And why would you choose to import people from halfway across the world before your neighbors? Strange man.
Try again:

The de facto language of the Philippines is indeed English-----------despite the government's attempt to have its people use Tagalog.
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Old 08-04-2009, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Earth
17,449 posts, read 22,953,730 times
Reputation: 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Most Americans are not Catholic.
Most Americans are at least nominally Christian and most non-believers like myself come from at least nominally Christian backgrounds. There is no majority Christian church in the US but the Catholic Church is the largest Christian denomination in the US and has been rooted in the US for a long time. Furthermore about half of US states are majority Catholic. There are aspects of the Catholic Church I'm not fond of, but it is a part of American culture and the US doesn't have any problems with Catholicism (it did in the 19th century but that's been over for some time). The current US VP is a Catholic (as well as a former US president and former VP, as well as several presidential and vice presidential candidates), the majority of the US Supreme Court is Catholic, etc. The imagery and ritual of the Catholic Church is ingrained in US culture in a way that the imagery and ritual of Islam are not.

OTOH Islam's followers at most compose 3-4% of the US population, and prior to the 1965 immigration act there were few Muslims in the US (although there have been Muslims in America since the late 19th century their numbers were quite small). The number of US born Muslim adults as opposed to immigrants was TINY until the 1980s and it's still rare to encounter a third generation American Muslim adult. There are also some rather notable problems that the US has had with the Muslim world especially in the last decade (understatement). While most American Muslims are OK people who are not interested in jihad, extremism, and violence (a large number came to the US to get away from the nastier aspects of the Islamic world) and Islamophobia is weaker in the US than in Europe, ISTM that importing people from Muslim countries has the potential to be far, far worse than Latin America (just ask someone in France or Spain about this) Do we want to import suicide bombers and terrorists who could potentially do another 9/11 or worse? Or for that matter honor killings and female circumcision? Many of those African countries have issues with jihadi violence and fundamentalism. Even leaving international politics out of this, the culture of Islamic countries are VERY different from American culture, and would be even if there were no international political issues. There is no Muslim majority state even though there are Muslim majority neighborhoods in the US (not sure if Dearborn, MI is Muslim majority, if so it would be the only Muslim majority municipality in the US), only one Muslim in Congress, and very few high profile Muslims in the US.

At least Mexico not only has religion in common but is culturally closer, you yourself even admitted some similarities between Mexican culture and the US culture of the past. (The former Senator and presidential candidate from your state, Goldwater, said he felt more at home in Mexico than anywhere outside of the US - if the culture was that different he would never have said that). Now this isn't to say that an increasing number of illegal immigrants come from southern regions of Mexico which are out of the mainstream of Mexican culture, but that can be controlled with better border enforcement.

Or let's put it another way: Guadalajara wouldn't seem that foreign to Americans, Monterrey and the border cities even less so. Mexico City wouldn't even seem that foreign to Americans - it would seem like a New York City that let its problems get completely out of hand, but it would have a certain familiarity. OTOH Lagos or Mombasa - outside of the upscale quarters and tourist districts - would seem completely foreign to Americans other than those with recent ancestry from those countries. The current US President is no more a practitioner of Kenyan culture than we are practitioners of Hungarian culture. The real thing would seem odd to Americans (this is not intended as a slur on any nationality btw)

Quote:
As for the Africans: being that we have something called an ocean separating that continent from us----------our government can be picky whom we let in. Read that English speakers only and so on.
Obviously there have been English speaking Africans who have made and make positive contributions to the US, but our government wasn't so picky about letting in Mohammed Atta.
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Earth
17,449 posts, read 22,953,730 times
Reputation: 7246
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynflip View Post
This statement is wayyy off base. It's a very ridiculous thing to say! Filipinos are very similar to Mexican culture.
Extremely similar. The Philippines hasn't been called "a Latin American country in Asia" for nothing. The only Filipinos whose culture is NOT like Mexican culture would be the Moros, and few of them emigrate to the US.

Quote:
But Filipinos don't speak English. Tagalog.
English IS spoken by every educated person in the Philippines, much like every educated Moroccan speaks French. But poor and uneducated people in the Philippines usually aren't bilingual or only know a very tiny amount of English, they'd only speak Tagalog or their local languages and dialects.

My guess is that he's met very few wealthy, upper middle class, middle class, or even lower middle class Mexicans, while he's met very few poor Filipinos.

Quote:
And both Filipinos and Mexicans are closer to American culture than Indians or Africans.
This is true, his view of Indians probably has to do with how well South Asian immigrants do in the US and the generally positive view of Indian culture in the US (outside of political-economic issues like outsourcing). Not to mention that South Asian culture HAS become more popular in the US, through restaurants and "Slumdog Millionaire" (although that didn't exactly give the most positive view of India) not to mention Bollywood itself. I wonder if his view would be different if he were in the UK rather than the US, e.g. if he spent time in places like East London, Leicester, Blackburn, or Bradford.

As for Africans, most Americans are pretty unfamiliar with African culture (NOT the same thing as African-American culture, which is a major part of American culture, or Caribbean culture, which Americans have had direct contact with for a longer period of time and which is more familiar). Just because the US has a President with a Kenyan father (who was born and raised in the US and is thoroughly a product of America) doesn't mean that US culture is close to Kenya's culture, unless you're talking about elites or those just beneath the elites.

Quote:
You're claim makes no sense, unless you have some kind of bias toward Mexis.
And why would you choose to import people from halfway across the world before your neighbors? Strange man.
I don't think he's racist but he sometimes can be less than well informed, and I used to think he was only against illegal immigration rather than against Mexicans but he says things at times that do sound a little odd and make one wonder. At least he's willing to debate.

Last edited by majoun; 08-04-2009 at 10:17 AM..
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:35 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,790,161 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
One of the requirements for becoming a citizen, and getting your citizenship, is, that you can speak English.

I think that is what everyone is getting racial profiling mixed up with. I call it language profiling.


He knew because they couldn't speak a lick of English. They were there. You were not.
You don't have to speak english to be here legally. There are many ways( green card lottery, temp work visas, chain migration) of being here legally that doesn't require one to speak english. So you just can't say someone doesn't speak english so they must be here illegally. Also, what about the cubans and puerto ricans what can't speak any english at all?
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Old 08-04-2009, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
You don't have to speak english to be here legally. There are many ways( green card lottery, temp work visas, chain migration) of being here legally that doesn't require one to speak english. So you just can't say someone doesn't speak english so they must be here illegally. Also, what about the cubans and puerto ricans what can't speak any english at all?
Unfortunately; you are correct.

Not knowing a spit of English is doing the above legal folks a disservice here IMHO.
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Old 08-04-2009, 11:47 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynflip View Post
This statement is wayyy off base. It's a very ridiculous thing to say! Filipinos are very similar to Mexican culture. But Filipinos don't speak English. Tagalog.
And both Filipinos and Mexicans are closer to American culture than Indians or Africans. You're claim makes no sense, unless you have some kind of bias toward Mexis.
And why would you choose to import people from halfway across the world before your neighbors? Strange man.
If the US allows people to come here and work as unskilled laborers, why should this opportunity be limited to people south of the border? A deserving Indonesian, Filipino, Nigerian or Polish worker should have an equal opportunity to come here and be employed as a temporary guest worker. I can think of no reason why people in other parts of the world should not have the same chance to work in the US for a period of time and go home with a nice nest egg.
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Old 08-04-2009, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by brooklynflip View Post
This statement is wayyy off base. It's a very ridiculous thing to say! Filipinos are very similar to Mexican culture. But Filipinos don't speak English. Tagalog.
And both Filipinos and Mexicans are closer to American culture than Indians or Africans. You're claim makes no sense, unless you have some kind of bias toward Mexis.
And why would you choose to import people from halfway across the world before your neighbors? Strange man.
Better yet: it is time to restore our immigration laws to pre 1965 levels to better reflect the ethnic makeup of the USA. If its means more Black Africans vs. Hispanics (of any race) legally immigrating here--------so be it.
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Old 08-04-2009, 02:09 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post



This is true, his view of Indians probably has to do with how well South Asian immigrants do in the US and the generally positive view of Indian culture in the US (outside of political-economic issues like outsourcing). Not to mention that South Asian culture HAS become more popular in the US, through restaurants and "Slumdog Millionaire" (although that didn't exactly give the most positive view of India) not to mention Bollywood itself. I wonder if his view would be different if he were in the UK rather than the US, e.g. if he spent time in places like East London, Leicester, Blackburn, or Bradford.

.
I've long respected your posts....am not in this particular thread for a 'fight'..I agree with MOST of what you say (including your summary of Filipinos), and am ONLY posting here because your (above) quote struck a chord with me.

You say "His" view of Indians is favorable, probably because Indian culture is viewed favorably in the USA at this point in history. You suggest things may be different if "he" lived elsewhere...in a situation in which Indian culture...and Indian immigrants...were viewed LESS favorably.

Well.....YES! You're probably correct. In fact, I'd say your comment is not only CORRECT, it's very close to a "given". IF anybody lived in a place where "culture A" was seen in an unfavorable light, then that person would PROBABLY look down on "culture A"..and vice-versa. And if that 'person' lived somewhere ELSE, in a different setting, he may have a different opinion of "culture A"..along with many OTHER things. Yes....I'm sure that's true.

The question in MY mind then becomes, "since ALL cultures have a 'heirarchy' of what they DO like, and what they DON'T like, does this ALSO apply to the USA, and its citizens"?....i.e., are we Americans allowed to "like" cultures, and "dislike" cultures, as most of the world does?..or are we forbidden by our OWN self-imposed ground rules of 'multiculturalism' from making any such distinctions?

EVERY major culture on earth feels 'closer' to some people than to others; feels it has more 'ties' with certain groups than it has with others; feels more 'empathy' with, and more 'trust in', more 'identification with', some groups, than it does with others. Some of this may be due to religion, ethnicity, race, simple superstition, a past history of enmity or friendship...or even the 'current situation'. For whatever reason, I suspect it's a safe assumption to say that every population group on EARTH feels "close" to some groups, and less "close" to others.

My question is, is this also true of the American (USA) population as well? Are we "allowed" to feel such feelings, and make such distinctions, and voice such thoughts? Are we allowed to feel "good" toward some countries, and be "mad" at others? Or has our "new" (25 years or so) concept of a 'multicultural' society precluded any right we may have once had of differentiating between populations abroad, or nations, or cultures?

I'm sure we'd get both "yes" and "no" answers to the above. Just felt compelled by your post to mention this....and stand by while others comment on this question.
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