U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-27-2009, 04:23 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marfa View Post
This is a most excellent post - so much so, it has caused me to question my views concerning illegal immigration. That's not easy for many people to do. As you can probably tell, I am very opinionated about this issue, and I have my reasons. At any rate, this part struck me the most:

"The net effect of millions upon millions of illegal 'residents' living, uninvited but 'undetectable' within a society, is that it begins to blur the definition of what IS 'an American citizen' at all...and one of the defenses seems to be that "perhaps, in the end, it's not important who is, or who is not, a citizen, as long as we're all 'good people'."

When I read this, I realized that I tend to think this way.

You continued:

"This, in my opinion, CAN'T be a good thing. 'Watering down' or blurring the lines between 'legal and illegal', in the end, casts doubt upon all of us. If we don't know who is, and is not, legal.... but we know that millions of us are NOT.... then sooner or later, everyone suffers."

*Mental bulb illuminates at this point.*

You are absolutely right! See, I have always measured this issue by a standard of human value, rather than looking at it at it in a more pragmatic fashion that focuses most on the law and the economy. However, after considering your argument, I'm faced with the realization that I can't cling to an either/or view of this problem. There are human consequences for not enforcing immigration laws. Mexican-Americans are being robbed of their identity as American citizens because of this, as illustrated by the woman's sign, and by the fact that so many people call American citizens of Latin descent (no matter what their heritage) "Mexicans." Somehow, they are no longer considered "real Americans" by other U.S. citizens. There seems to be a de facto 'official' American culture that excludes Mexican-American traditions - along with many other ethnic traditions, as well, I admit. But the immigration problem seems to be enhancing the erroneously perceived 'un-Americanism' of Americans of Latin descent.

My greatest concern, however, is that many white Americans are using the immigration problem to justify their preexisting racist sentiment toward Americans with brown skin. And they are truly the ones to blame for denying Mexican-Americans recognition as U.S. citizens, not the undocumented immigrants. However, they will continue to seem justified, will continue to demonize and ostracize American Latinos, and will win more and more converts to their mindset, unless we are able to curb illegal immigration. Now, how on earth do we do that? That is the million-dollar question.

Anyway, I appreciate the educational dialogue. I learned a lot. Best of luck to you and yours, as well. Oh, and I know what you're saying about native Americans being mistaken for "Mexicans." I have several native-American friends who are having the same problem. Bleh!
Nothing more to say here..I agree point-by-point. The situation has veered WAY out of control.....any possible solution at this 'late date' will undoubtedly result in anger, outrage and annoy SOME group....(more likely, it will outrage ALL groups)....and 'Mexican-Americans', meanwhile, will be caught up in a sort of 'guilt by asociation' scenario that is NOT of their own making, and is USUALLY baseless. And that's a shame, a real shame.....it should never have happened this way.

I absolutely agree that the racists and xenophobes are using this situation to have a 'Field Day', and that's a shame, too.

It's an ugly, emotional, divisive issue, and calls into question whether indeed it's possible to ever develop a 'multi-ethnic', multiracial society, where everyone is free to 'be himself', yet is united enough in some form of 'common culture' that these ethnic 'squabbles' will not happen. Is it possible? I've always hoped so....but no one knows. And the present bitter "illegal" mess isn't helping..

Thanks for your comments, and best wishes to you and the family..

Last edited by macmeal; 07-27-2009 at 04:34 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-27-2009, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
11,102 posts, read 12,799,363 times
Reputation: 3917
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
someone gets it! so as white men should you go self policing ALL the white rapists and child molestors?

thats crazy. whatever happened to hispanics being citizens like everyone else.
Quit being mellow dramatic....in case you are confused,this is the ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION forum and that's what we are discussing...if you want to talk about rapist etc...start you a rapist forum.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2009, 04:32 PM
 
Location: Over the Rainbow...
5,963 posts, read 10,494,121 times
Reputation: 3135
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
I guess ignorance is a bliss.

Video - Breaking News Videos from CNN.com

This video shows how one caucasian American is exercising her freedom of speech by posting a sign that says, "Hispanics keep out".

Not in violation of any law but it certainly says how ignorance and fear can lead to hatred of a particular group of people.
Although I don't agree with this woman but don't have the circumstance as to "why" she did this...my question to you and others is: You think it's ok then when illegals display signs against Americans and make their demands, and put their flag up above the U.S. flag?? Think about it? WHY is it wrong when an American citizen does some sort of protest or makes a comment but you have the Mexican hate groups spewing their hatred for Americans ?? Go figure. If her sign said "Hispanics" I am going to assume she meant all, legal and illegal. IMO she should have put "illegals" keep out!

Last edited by Alaskapat528; 07-27-2009 at 04:34 PM.. Reason: add
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2009, 04:33 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
someone gets it! so as white men should you go self policing ALL the white rapists and child molestors?

thats crazy. whatever happened to hispanics being citizens like everyone else.
Now look, "One"....sometimes you make appropriate comments...this time? Bad analogy. Of course 'white men' do not root through the neighborhood, "outing" the rapists and child molesters who are white. However, there are VERY FEW of these malefactors in any community, and when they ARE caught...by the police...most 'White Men' do NOT defend them; do NOT plead for 'understanding' or 'acceptance' of these bad guys...and there is really no such thing as a "pro-rapist"...or a "pro-child-molester"...EVEN among white men.

Of course, illegal immigration is a FAR different offense than rape or pedophilia. On the other hand, illegal immigration occurs in fairly large numbers, and it DOES have plenty of people (of MANY ethnicities) defending it, rationalizing it, and trying to make it sound 'acceptable'.

All-in-all, your comparison was NOT a particularly valid one. You're capable of much better.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2009, 05:34 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
this sign seeks exclusion. and exclusionary tactics are discriminatory. and discrimination is usally rooted in racism (or ethnicism). any way you cut it this woman is wrong.
and i would argue that the sign is not lawful in that it creates the possibibilty of inciting harm against the owner of the house or hispanics in the neighborhood. its incendiary. it can cause great harm. its also in bad taste (just like the hanging effegy of sara palin) the sign is discriminatory. it is racist. how well would a sign that read "blacks keep out" be recieved.

this woman [erroneously] singled out a particular group. thats super ignorance.

if yall dont get this. then that is just really sad. anyone defending this (or her right to plant the sign) is pitiful.

further, some posters have too many generalizations about hispanics. thats very ignorant. the woman is very ignorant. i have seen neighborhoods turn from majority white to majority brown. they have maintained thier middle class status.

whittier, CA and downey, CA are examples of this.

to answer a question posited earlier by a poster...
this sign does no good. IT HURTS THE CAUSE. she is an extremist and the scary part is that many beleive what her sign reads.

my only consolation is that she is in the minority. she is such a silly prejudiced dinosaur; like them she too will become extinct.

Who took down the American flag and raised the Mexican flag over the US Post Office in Maywood, CA, the one?



Who hoisted the Mexican flag with the US flag upside down underneath it up the flagpole? And why? This is a high school, paid for by US tax dollars.



And who are these people who appear to be quite pleased by this?



And these exemplary individuals?


*
*
*

Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining. You see, the more 'in your face' the behavior of the illegals and their enablers becomes, the easier that makes things for me. In the final analysis, they are the best weapon that we have. Keep it up.

Last edited by andreabeth; 07-27-2009 at 05:58 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2009, 05:44 PM
 
134 posts, read 203,264 times
Reputation: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Who took down the American flag and raised the Mexican flag over the US Post Office in Maywood, CA, the one?



Who hoisted the Mexican flag with the US flag upside down underneath it up the flagpole? And why? This is a high school, paid for by US tax dollars.



And who are these people who appear to be quite pleased by this?



And these exemplary individuals?


*
*
*

Don't get me wrong, I am not complaining. You see, the more 'in your face' the behavior of the illegals and their enablers becomes, the easier that makes things for me. In the final analysis, you are the best weapon that we have. Keep it up.
Why are we upset with people protesting? Don't we PRIDE ourselves on our right to PROTEST. A right people in Iran don't enjoy. So when a group of people we don't like do it, we get upset. Don't like the illegals in your face? Boycott them...don't buy any Mexican food!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2009, 05:45 PM
 
Location: Over the Rainbow...
5,963 posts, read 10,494,121 times
Reputation: 3135
Andreabeth, I tried to rep ya but it said I gotta spread it around...excellent post!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2009, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Over the Rainbow...
5,963 posts, read 10,494,121 times
Reputation: 3135
Illegals have NO right to protest anything in the U.S. They have NO right to even be in the U.S. !!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2009, 05:53 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by West Side Houston View Post
Why are we upset with people protesting? Don't we PRIDE ourselves on our right to PROTEST. A right people in Iran don't enjoy. So when a group of people we don't like do it, we get upset. Don't like the illegals in your face? Boycott them...don't buy any Mexican food!
Tell me what they are protesting, west side houston.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-27-2009, 06:03 PM
 
Location: Democratic Peoples Republic of Redneckistan
11,102 posts, read 12,799,363 times
Reputation: 3917
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alaskapat528 View Post
Illegals have NO right to protest anything in the U.S. They have NO right to even be in the U.S. !!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top