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Old 08-01-2009, 09:37 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,820 posts, read 30,068,682 times
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It's pretty obvious we either have to restructure our network of social services or protect our borders. We are seeing first hand what happens when the two collide.
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Old 08-01-2009, 10:37 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,620,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
It's pretty obvious we either have to restructure our network of social services or protect our borders. We are seeing first hand what happens when the two collide.
You have plenty of company, Angry T.

"Unfortunately, no....you cannot simultaneously have free immigration and a welfare state"....

Nobel prize winning economist Milton Friedman, quoted at a conference in San Jose, Costa Rica in 1997....along with several other notable speakers who've said more-or-les the same thing, over the years.

Pretty much a 'no brainer', I'd say...
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Old 08-01-2009, 11:53 AM
 
380 posts, read 612,421 times
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THE ARGUMENT IS MOOT BECAUSE THE USA's BORDERS ARE ALREADY OPEN.
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,637,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
It's pretty obvious we either have to restructure our network of social services or protect our borders. We are seeing first hand what happens when the two collide.
Very true.

Those nations with generous social welfare programs typically have very strict laws about immigration and take a hard line with any illegals caught within.
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Old 08-01-2009, 12:42 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,620,778 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by contachster View Post
THE ARGUMENT IS MOOT BECAUSE THE USA's BORDERS ARE ALREADY OPEN.
Not neccessarily "moot"..YES, the USA for all practical purposes, has 'open borders'....and YES, the USA is, in more and more respects each year, a "welfare state".....so, (according to Friedman and others), we "can't have that".

By "can't have it", it doesn't mean it can't exist...(since it obviously does)..it means that such a situation is insupportable, and at some point will collapse..or change. And when it changes, what will it resemble? That's the scary part.

Last edited by macmeal; 08-01-2009 at 01:11 PM..
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Old 08-01-2009, 01:28 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
60,356 posts, read 30,657,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Not neccessarily "moot"..YES, the USA for all practical purposes, has 'open borders'....and YES, the USA is, in more and more respects each year, a "welfare state".....so, (according to Friedman and others), we "can't have that".

By "can't have it", it doesn't mean it can't exist...(since it obviously does)..it means that such a situation is insupportable, and at some point will collapse..or change. And when it changes, what will it resemble? That's the scary part.

Looks like it is unsupportable, now. Notice how more has been done in the last year, than anything they promised would happen when they lied to us in 1986 Sham-nasty. The sheet has hit the fan and gaining momentum.
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Old 08-01-2009, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,637,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Looks like it is unsupportable, now. Notice how more has been done in the last year, than anything they promised would happen when they lied to us in 1986 Sham-nasty. The sheet has hit the fan and gaining momentum.
Attitudes are definitely hardening against illegal aliens.

I am doing my part about 'nudging' Americans against aiding/abetting those criminals----------one person at a time.
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Old 08-01-2009, 02:10 PM
 
Location: California
706 posts, read 796,624 times
Reputation: 179
If we don't control the borders, who will ?


MS 13 Now Control the US-Mexican Border | The Last Crusade
Something bad is taking place at the border.
“We’re seeing a lot of MS-13,” says Agent Mike Scioli of the U.S. Border Patrol. “They’re typically known to be guns for hire, they’re known to smuggle narcotics and human traffic across the border illegally."
MS-13 stands for Mara Salvatrucha, the most violent street gang in the western hemisphere.
Last week Border Patrol agents arrested two MS-13 members: one in Tucson and one in Nogales. The Nogales arrestee was identified by his tattoos – - the letter M on his right bicep; the letter S on his left; the number 1 on his right triceps; the number 3 on his left.
“He was already deported from Los Angeles back to Mexico and he was attempting to re-enter to join back up with his gang,” Scioli says.
Tucson’s Border Patrol Sector is the busiest in the U.S. Last year its agents arrested about 317,000 illegal immigrants. Scioli says 16 percent, or almost 50,000, had some type of criminal record.
But the presence of MS-13 merits special concern.
SNIP

Last edited by borderlord; 08-01-2009 at 02:14 PM.. Reason: clean up
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Old 08-02-2009, 08:32 AM
 
167 posts, read 406,586 times
Reputation: 91
They tried the 'open borders" in Europe. Most people went to England, which of course, if a welfare state, now England are paying the French millions not to let anymore come across the channel. England is completely overcrowded and getting worse by the minute.

The National Health Service is completely over-whelmed, my mom recently passed away and I have to say her care was terrible. The ER rooms have a curtain between about 12 beds, when I was there, polish was being spoke in the curtain room next to us, time to be seen is terrible, and then they sent my mom home with a chest infection, dementia, COPD and blood pressure all over the place - the reason being - they just didn't have any beds. She died not soon after.

If there were no freebies here to claim, maybe open borders would not leave such a bad taste in my mouth, but I feel there would be too much cheap labour, which would reduce the quality of life of many.
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Old 08-02-2009, 08:37 AM
 
8,640 posts, read 7,735,931 times
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There is NO upside to open borders! Do you really want America to look like the countries they come from?


There is however great advantage to closing the borders tight as possible and deporting all the illegal immigrants.
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