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Old 08-12-2009, 05:13 PM
 
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how many of the pro-illegal crowd have competed with or have been driven out of their professions by illegal labor?
can you say HYPOCRITE!
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Old 08-12-2009, 05:21 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,620,778 times
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Default Simple Question....indeed

Good question. How many, indeed? And who cares? Likewise, how many people who profess to be "against" something have actually been personally impacted by that which they SAY they're against? Few people that I know have ever been raped, killed by a drunk driver, blown up by a terrorist, been framed for murder, had their house grafittied, or their car stolen...so, as you say, why all the hypocrisy? What about it, people? What do YOU have against crime...I mean, PERSONALLY?

Very good point.
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Old 08-13-2009, 10:28 AM
 
394 posts, read 896,844 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Good question. How many, indeed? And who cares? Likewise, how many people who profess to be "against" something have actually been personally impacted by that which they SAY they're against? Few people that I know have ever been raped, killed by a drunk driver, blown up by a terrorist, been framed for murder, had their house grafittied, or their car stolen...so, as you say, why all the hypocrisy? What about it, people? What do YOU have against crime...I mean, PERSONALLY?

Very good point.
well said as usual mac
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:00 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,080,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Good question. How many, indeed? And who cares? Likewise, how many people who profess to be "against" something have actually been personally impacted by that which they SAY they're against? Few people that I know have ever been raped, killed by a drunk driver, blown up by a terrorist, been framed for murder, had their house grafittied, or their car stolen...so, as you say, why all the hypocrisy? What about it, people? What do YOU have against crime...I mean, PERSONALLY?

Very good point.
Since this point is brought up time and time again, it does stand to reason that if not too many people in general have not been impacted, there might be a little bit of fear mongering going on. Just as you mentioned terrorists. We know of so few people impacted directly from terrorism, yet we have given up many freedoms and allowed punishment of crimes that did not even happen (on the basis that they could have happened).

Rape, drunk driving, grafitti, theft...are MUCH more common. Hence why police departments place priority on said issues. People being framed for murder is not that common, hence why it's low on the prevention scale.

The fact of the matter is that job loss has been inflated in order to push an anti illegal/anti immigration agenda (some are against immigration period).
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:12 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,620,778 times
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Originally Posted by that1guy View Post

The fact of the matter is that job loss has been inflated in order to push an anti illegal/anti immigration agenda (some are against immigration period).
"Job loss has been inflated", you say....to further an 'anti-immigrant' agenda? By whom, may I ask? Who's putting out these figures?

I would tend (off the top of my head) to say quite the opposite..that in any case of 'doubtful' data, that figures are being 'cooked', and data is being 'skewed' to MINIMIZE the effect of illegal immigration, not to emphasize it. There are NUMEROUS examples of any number of government 'entities', publications, media stories, discussion panels, etc etc etc, which are reluctant to even USE the word "illegal"....and who go WAY out on a limb to completely 'blur' any line between legal and illegal immigration.

I can't imagine who it is you're accusing of downplaying the figures on job loss...and if such IS happening, I seriously doubt it's to 'protect' illegals from criticism...more likely it's to shield the government administration from being accused of mismanaging the economy.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:22 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,080,163 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
"Job loss has been inflated", you say....to further an 'anti-immigrant' agenda? By whom, may I ask? Who's putting out these figures?

I would tend (off the top of my head) to say quite the opposite..that in any case of 'doubtful' data, that figures are being 'cooked', and data is being 'skewed' to MINIMIZE the effect of illegal immigration, not to emphasize it. There are NUMEROUS examples of any number of government 'entities', publications, media stories, discussion panels, etc etc etc, which are reluctant to even USE the word "illegal"....and who go WAY out on a limb to completely 'blur' any line between legal and illegal immigration.

I can't imagine who it is you're accusing of downplaying the figures on job loss...and if such IS happening, I seriously doubt it's to 'protect' illegals from criticism...more likely it's to shield the government administration from being accused of mismanaging the economy.
We had a 5-6% unemployment rate during the peak of illegal immigration. How do you explain this? If illegal immigrants were taking away jobs en-masse, the numbers would be MUCH higher. Many economists and intellectuals agree that illegal immigration has not made a huge impact on unemployment and wage depression.
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Old 08-14-2009, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Maryland
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Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
We had a 5-6% unemployment rate during the peak of illegal immigration. How do you explain this? If illegal immigrants were taking away jobs en-masse, the numbers would be MUCH higher. Many economists and intellectuals agree that illegal immigration has not made a huge impact on unemployment and wage depression.
What do you consider “peak?” IMO, “peak” is having 20+ million illegal aliens currently in this country, while we have in excess of 14 million unemployed citizens. I doubt if the millions of “former” construction, fast food, hotel workers, etc. would consider illegal immigration a non-issue.

Please don’t tell me you actually believe the government.
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:22 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
What do you consider “peak?” IMO, “peak” is having 20+ million illegal aliens currently in this country, while we have in excess of 14 million unemployed citizens. I doubt if the millions of “former” construction, fast food, hotel workers, etc. would consider illegal immigration a non-issue.

Please don’t tell me you actually believe the government.
Well, I will tell you I don't believe the Center for Immigration Studies and the ilk. I do believe the census, I believe what MANY of sociologists and economists have stated.

The vast majority of part time and hourly workers are NOT illegal. In fast food, the majority are teens.

I am a part time janitor (thank you economy). They hired me since I wanted the work. I asked my friends, and conducted an informal poll. Most said they would never be a janitor. So what is occurring is also self selection. You don't see many American youth in these lower service sector jobs (ie, janitor).

Construction is not a job, it's an industry. With that said, construction...Living in literally what was the fastest growing region of the US... I can tell you that most were not illegal immigrants building those houses. It takes A LOT of skill to build a house. Lawsuits occur when faulty building happens.
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Old 08-14-2009, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,821,083 times
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Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Well, I will tell you I don't believe the Center for Immigration Studies and the ilk. I do believe the census, I believe what MANY of sociologists and economists have stated.

The vast majority of part time and hourly workers are NOT illegal. In fast food, the majority are teens.

I am a part time janitor (thank you economy). They hired me since I wanted the work. I asked my friends, and conducted an informal poll. Most said they would never be a janitor. So what is occurring is also self selection. You don't see many American youth in these lower service sector jobs (ie, janitor).

Construction is not a job, it's an industry. With that said, construction...Living in literally what was the fastest growing region of the US... I can tell you that most were not illegal immigrants building those houses. It takes A LOT of skill to build a house. Lawsuits occur when faulty building happens.
C’mon, they are ALL industries. Let’s not reduce this to the ridiculous. The bottom line is all of these jobs were being performed by U.S. citizens prior to the greed infestation permeating this country. College and high school students, as well as elderly once dominated fast food. Now, even summer jobs have become virtually extinct for this demographic due primarily to cheap illegal labor. Yes, youth still dominate this industry, but they are illegal aliens, not citizens.

Many citizens supported their families by working construction. And yes, they “were” skilled laborers. Now, we have shoddy work being performed by unskilled illegals, and legitimate contractors are unable to compete against unscrupulous employers of illegals.

I don’t need to rely on reports from the government or any special interest group. I see it everyday, and I personally know construction contractors that have gone out of business because they choose to operate legally. I can tell you, the majority of workers on construction sites are NOT legal workers, and our government could give a damn. If the government doesn’t care that unlicensed illegals are working as mechanics for our commercial airlines, do you actually believe they care if they build your house?

I don’t think anyone EVER aspired to become a janitor. However, when one lacks an education, one must accept whatever work is available. Sadly, the uneducated U.S. citizen has been replaced by foreigners willing to work for ‘slave’ wages, and willing to live 15-20 per 1-bedroom apartment.
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Old 08-14-2009, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,637,375 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Well, I will tell you I don't believe the Center for Immigration Studies and the ilk. I do believe the census, I believe what MANY of sociologists and economists have stated.

The vast majority of part time and hourly workers are NOT illegal. In fast food, the majority are teens.

I am a part time janitor (thank you economy). They hired me since I wanted the work. I asked my friends, and conducted an informal poll. Most said they would never be a janitor. So what is occurring is also self selection. You don't see many American youth in these lower service sector jobs (ie, janitor).

Construction is not a job, it's an industry. With that said, construction...Living in literally what was the fastest growing region of the US... I can tell you that most were not illegal immigrants building those houses. It takes A LOT of skill to build a house. Lawsuits occur when faulty building happens.
Try again: during the building boom here in Arizona some years ago; there was so much demand for laborers (never mind that hindsight 20/20, too many houses were built hence in part the subsequent crash------which still has not found botton) that even the illegal alien Mexicans refused to do certain types of potentially dangerous construction----------roofing comes to mind. That work devolved to Guatemalans.
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