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View Poll Results: is opposing illegal immigration but supporting legal immigration anti-immigrant?
no 67 74.44%
yes 23 25.56%
Voters: 90. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 09-03-2013, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Jacurutu
5,302 posts, read 4,010,077 times
Reputation: 601

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Packard fan View Post
Those are the rules here in the US. Either follow them or try to change them. If the rules don't get changed, it is what it is.
Note that it is "malamute" and others that want to "change" these rules from what they are right now...
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:11 AM
 
Location: South Portland, ME
874 posts, read 968,176 times
Reputation: 868
Looking backward for insight on immigration reform - The Hill's Congress Blog

Quote:
Forty-eight years ago, President Lyndon Johnson (D) signed the Immigration Act of 1965, the most comprehensive immigration reform in generations. Now, decades later, Congress is contemplating another serious immigration reform that would legalize millions of unauthorized immigrants and allow for increased legal immigration going forward. It is often said that we should learn from history, and immigration reform is no exception. A look back at the 1965 Act can inform today’s debate.

The 1965 Act was hailed by many as a major reform that partially reopened immigration. From 1790 to 1921, with the exception of the shameful Chinese Exclusion Act in 1882, the U.S. had mostly free immigration. Immigrants getting off the boat at East and West coast immigrant processing centers like Ellis Island were allowed to enter upon passing health and criminal inspections.

Ships full of immigrants bearing Italians, Jews, Russians and Poles did not sail up to American beaches and disgorge their human cargo in the hope that they would evade a Border Patrol (which did not exist until 1924). Because so many could come legally, unauthorized immigration was rare.

This is one of the reasons that "my ancestors followed the law when they came here" is such a contemptible argument. There was barely any law regulating immigration, and the few laws that did exist were easy to skirt simply by getting off the boat somewhere the immigration authorities didn't intercept you.

And it SHOULD still be like that today.
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Old 10-09-2013, 08:38 AM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoulesMSU View Post
Looking backward for insight on immigration reform - The Hill's Congress Blog




This is one of the reasons that "my ancestors followed the law when they came here" is such a contemptible argument. There was barely any law regulating immigration, and the few laws that did exist were easy to skirt simply by getting off the boat somewhere the immigration authorities didn't intercept you.

And it SHOULD still be like that today.
NO country allows unlimited numbers of people to come in without them asking 1st. No reason for the US to be different.
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Old 10-09-2013, 09:41 AM
 
31,488 posts, read 14,565,596 times
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And illegal aliens and their supporters are seeking to change our immigration laws. Pot, kettle, black. I guess that is ok but not for those of us who oppose illegal immigration, amnesty and who want fair legal immigration policies rather than what we have now to seek more fairness in them? Seeking equal and fair legal immigration policies is being anti-"immigrant"? (insert rolling eyes here).
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Old 10-10-2013, 09:15 PM
 
Location: too far from the sea
17,993 posts, read 17,140,226 times
Reputation: 30131
Of course you can support LEGAL immigration and oppose ILLEGAL immigration at the same time. Can you support earning an honest living and oppose robbing a bank at the same time?

Doing it by the law--you get vaccinations, health check, background check. Sneaking in--you get none of these so what are you? You a a law breaker, possibly a communicable disease carrier, and who knows if you are a drug dealer or some other kind of criminal.
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Old 10-10-2013, 11:33 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Of course you can support LEGAL immigration and oppose ILLEGAL immigration at the same time. Can you support earning an honest living and oppose robbing a bank at the same time?

Doing it by the law--you get vaccinations, health check, background check. Sneaking in--you get none of these so what are you? You a a law breaker, possibly a communicable disease carrier, and who knows if you are a drug dealer or some other kind of criminal.
Agreed.
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Old 10-11-2013, 01:13 PM
 
Location: Native Floridian, USA
4,896 posts, read 5,864,783 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Of course you can support LEGAL immigration and oppose ILLEGAL immigration at the same time. Can you support earning an honest living and oppose robbing a bank at the same time?

Doing it by the law--you get vaccinations, health check, background check. Sneaking in--you get none of these so what are you? You a a law breaker, possibly a communicable disease carrier, and who knows if you are a drug dealer or some other kind of criminal.
well said. Although, Eric Holder, AG, wants to give drug dealers a pass.......so that shouldn't be pertinent (sp) anymore <s>.
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Old 10-16-2013, 04:19 PM
 
Location: South Portland, ME
874 posts, read 968,176 times
Reputation: 868
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
Of course you can support LEGAL immigration and oppose ILLEGAL immigration at the same time. Can you support earning an honest living and oppose robbing a bank at the same time?

Doing it by the law--you get vaccinations, health check, background check. Sneaking in--you get none of these so what are you? You a a law breaker, possibly a communicable disease carrier, and who knows if you are a drug dealer or some other kind of criminal.
That would be fine if doing it "legally" was acceptable, but it's not. It takes months if not years to get "approved". You can also go through all of that stuff and end up being "denied".

If legal immigration were as simple as showing up, filling out some paperwork, and buying/renting a home, then NO ONE would immigrate illegally in the first place.

The ONLY REASON 99% of people immigrate illegally is because the "legal way" is too burdensome.

It's just like speed limits. Most people speed on roads where they feel like the speed limit is "too low" and they DON'T speed on roads where they believe the speed limit is "fair". For example, a 3 lane freeway posted as 55 mph - everyone still drives 70-75 mph. But when you get to the section where it changes to 75 mph, do people start driving 90-95? No. They keep driving 70-75. Why? Because they believe that 70-75 mph is a "fair" speed limit for the freeway. So they follow the law when it makes sense and they ignore the law when it doesn't.

This is exactly the same as immigration. People who would otherwise migrate legally are forced to do so illegally because the law is too restrictive and they don't agree with it. If you made it less restrictive, they would gladly follow it.

Therefore, the premise of this thread (and your post) is wrong. In a vacuum, of course you could support legal immigration and not illegal immigration. But in the real world, the choice is either that you support the basic human right people should have in regards to freedom of movement - or you don't.

Supporting "immigration laws" means you want to deny people a basic human right.
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Old 10-16-2013, 06:28 PM
 
20,611 posts, read 12,282,218 times
Reputation: 5895
Quote:
Originally Posted by JoulesMSU View Post
That would be fine if doing it "legally" was acceptable, but it's not. It takes months if not years to get "approved". You can also go through all of that stuff and end up being "denied".

If legal immigration were as simple as showing up, filling out some paperwork, and buying/renting a home, then NO ONE would immigrate illegally in the first place.

The ONLY REASON 99% of people immigrate illegally is because the "legal way" is too burdensome.

It's just like speed limits. Most people speed on roads where they feel like the speed limit is "too low" and they DON'T speed on roads where they believe the speed limit is "fair". For example, a 3 lane freeway posted as 55 mph - everyone still drives 70-75 mph. But when you get to the section where it changes to 75 mph, do people start driving 90-95? No. They keep driving 70-75. Why? Because they believe that 70-75 mph is a "fair" speed limit for the freeway. So they follow the law when it makes sense and they ignore the law when it doesn't.

This is exactly the same as immigration. People who would otherwise migrate legally are forced to do so illegally because the law is too restrictive and they don't agree with it. If you made it less restrictive, they would gladly follow it.

Therefore, the premise of this thread (and your post) is wrong. In a vacuum, of course you could support legal immigration and not illegal immigration. But in the real world, the choice is either that you support the basic human right people should have in regards to freedom of movement - or you don't.

Supporting "immigration laws" means you want to deny people a basic human right.
That goes BOTH ways there; maybe WE don't want more people here in the US unless that play by OUR rules, that's also a "human right". Sheesh!
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Old 10-16-2013, 07:16 PM
 
31,488 posts, read 14,565,596 times
Reputation: 8353
Being denied does not entitle someone to come here illegally. If they are denied it is for good reasons. If denied entry into a movie theatre because it is full should someone just crash the box office anyway? It's the same thing. We have quotas for legal immigration and when they are used up for the year no one has the right to crash our gates anyway. Doesn't matter if they don't agree with our laws. THEY are the foreingners and WE set rules and policies for who may enter our country and who may not.

Having immigration laws and quotas goes against basic human rights? Who set those rights? Where is it written that humans have the right to move freely to any country without the individual country's permission? Did I just enter the twilight zone? Even God said to obey the laws of the land. Tell the rest of the world's countries then that they are violating human rights by having immigration laws that protects their own citizens. I guess citizens shouldn't have any rights? They should just roll over and let foreigners trespass on their land? Why do people have locks on their doors and fences around their homes? Is that violating basic human rights?
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