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Old 08-16-2009, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 19,054,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Umm...first off, we KNOW the war on drugs is an udder disgrace on this nation. Mexican drug cartels WILL always come in if their is a demand. This means we should rethink our views on drug enforcement.

Secondly, your idea that we will "continue to allow any terrorist organization" is simply not true. Can a terrorist attack occur? Yes. It happened on 9/11. However, at what point do we say that we will not allow the threat of terrorism to shape every facet of our nation. We know the VAST majority of those entering illegally are NOT criminals of any violent crimes. The majority are those seeking advancement economically...that's it.

So if I'm to understand you correctly you want to push two VERY VERY unsuccessful wars (war on drugs and war on terror) more so into the forefront.

We should not be griped in irrational fear.
I hear what you are saying but just what does securing the border have to do with the war on drugs and terrorism other than further limiting access to our country?
lets face it our military has quite a few years of experience with border control. Germany and Korea for example. Quite successfully I might add.
It would be cost neutral to use those troops currently assigned to overseas border patrol to patrol our own border. In fact it would cost less. Logistics wise it is far cheaper to support such a mission close to home instead of 8000 miles away.
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Old 08-17-2009, 03:07 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,115,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I hear what you are saying but just what does securing the border have to do with the war on drugs and terrorism other than further limiting access to our country?
lets face it our military has quite a few years of experience with border control. Germany and Korea for example. Quite successfully I might add.
It would be cost neutral to use those troops currently assigned to overseas border patrol to patrol our own border. In fact it would cost less. Logistics wise it is far cheaper to support such a mission close to home instead of 8000 miles away.
Read what Benicar stated...Also, I told my brother this (former Captian of the Army, West Point grad), he agreed it would be a waste of resources...given that we are involved in several conflicts and Army enrollment is down.
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Old 08-17-2009, 01:06 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,943,747 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Umm...first off, we KNOW the war on drugs is an udder disgrace on this nation. Mexican drug cartels WILL always come in if their is a demand. This means we should rethink our views on drug enforcement.

Secondly, your idea that we will "continue to allow any terrorist organization" is simply not true. Can a terrorist attack occur? Yes. It happened on 9/11. However, at what point do we say that we will not allow the threat of terrorism to shape every facet of our nation. We know the VAST majority of those entering illegally are NOT criminals of any violent crimes. The majority are those seeking advancement economically...that's it.

So if I'm to understand you correctly you want to push two VERY VERY unsuccessful wars (war on drugs and war on terror) more so into the forefront.

We should not be griped in irrational fear.
It is not an “irrational fear” to want our borders secured. However, it is delusional to think we can continue to remain safe while allowing our borders to remain open. If you think terrorists are not already here, you are sorely mistaken.

Yes, I want our borders secured from illegal aliens, drug cartels, terrorists, and all other foreign invaders. I fail to comprehend how securing our borders will exacerbate our problem with our “War on Drugs” or our “War on Terror.” Please elaborate.
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Old 08-17-2009, 05:11 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,115,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benicar View Post
it is not an “irrational fear” to want our borders secured. However, it is delusional to think we can continue to remain safe while allowing our borders to remain open. If you think terrorists are not already here, you are sorely mistaken.

it is an irrational fear!!! Agh the terrorists are here!!! Guess what? We have bigger problems. We have lots more problems. Terrorism is not the highest priority. Solving the economic crisis, the healthcare crisis, wars started on the hysteria of terrorism, as well as drought, declining farm values, climate change...things that are pertinent and actually pose a greater threat to our wellbeing. I never stated that there were no terrorists in this nation. The majority of 9/11 terrorists had temp. Visas that were current. So should we completely shut down our borders?

yes, i want our borders secured from illegal aliens, drug cartels, terrorists, and all other foreign invaders. I fail to comprehend how securing our borders will exacerbate our problem with our “war on drugs” or our “war on terror.” please elaborate.

do you think we are "winning" the war on terror, drugs, and illegal immigration? How do you win such wars? Does closing and militarizing the border allow us to "win"? Think about those questions.
the sky is falling!!!
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:08 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,943,747 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
the sky is falling!!!
No, the sky is not falling -- at least not in my area. As a matter of fact, I’m gazing at a picturesque sunset over the Potomac. However, no country can expect to remain secure with wide open borders. Do you leave the doors and windows open at home and go away on vacation? Do you leave your car unlocked and the keys in the ignition? Of course not. It’s simple common sense. And please, no dissertation on the difference between a border and a house/car.

The only reason the “Wars” have been dismal failures, is because too many people in positions of power are profiting from their continuance. We are more than capable of “winning.”
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:11 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,711,980 times
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Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
the sky is falling!!!
Sounds eerily like sarcasm.....if I didn't know better.
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:16 PM
 
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Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Sounds eerily like sarcasm.....if I didn't know better.
Except, back with some rationale...
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 19,054,490 times
Reputation: 6518
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Read what Benicar stated...Also, I told my brother this (former Captian of the Army, West Point grad), he agreed it would be a waste of resources...given that we are involved in several conflicts and Army enrollment is down.
I respectfully disagree with the West Point grad. Pull our troops from Korea, phase in fresh recruits as part of their training and it is a 0 additional cost venture and the recruits would benefit from some real hands on training.
Army recruitment is down??? Then why the 9months to a year wait to be able to enlist?
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:23 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,115,627 times
Reputation: 822
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
No, the sky is not falling -- at least not in my area. As a matter of fact, I’m gazing at a picturesque sunset over the Potomac. However, no country can expect to remain secure with wide open borders. Do you leave the doors and windows open at home and go away on vacation? Do you leave your car unlocked and the keys in the ignition? Of course not. It’s simple common sense. And please, no dissertation on the difference between a border and a house/car.

The only reason the “Wars” have been dismal failures, is because too many people in positions of power are profiting from their continuance. We are more than capable of “winning.”
Actually, funny story about leaving the doors unlocked on vacation. We were leaving for Ivory Coast. We left thinking the garage door was closed. It wasn't, the sensor detected the cat and rose back up. Our neighbor closed it.

Once I left keys on the car door overnight. My car was still there. All I got was a note saying that next time, be careful.

We obviously use common sense (these are isolated incidents) but we realize that statistically it is rare for things to get stolen in our area. Rare events do happen, but again, not the norm.

The reason why these wars are dismal failures is because you can't fight an intangible.

Also, THERE is a difference between a house/thief and the border/immigrants. Sorry, but that's common sense.
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Old 08-17-2009, 07:36 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,115,627 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I respectfully disagree with the West Point grad. Pull our troops from Korea, phase in fresh recruits as part of their training and it is a 0 additional cost venture and the recruits would benefit from some real hands on training.
Army recruitment is down??? Then why the 9months to a year wait to be able to enlist?
From 2005-2007, they have been lean years for the army. People with lower education and criminal behaviors have helped in the surge of entering into the Army. Also, not to mention stop loss which keeps high amounts of people. Let's face it, the army is hurting for people. Hence why it does employ stop loss and enable those without high school diplomas (but with criminal records) to enter into the Army.

You are right on us meeting goals, but what type of military do we want?

Not to mention the fact that a 8/09/2009 headline in Pyongyang proclaimed North Korea "ready for war"...should we pull out?
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