Anyone Up For A Little Immigration?

[Kele]

Originally Posted by lammius

I've watched the video 3 times. I get his point, but the graphics are just intended to get a jaw-drop out of an audience. I don't see much value in it.

And what I meant about not knowing where the problem is, is that I haven't witnessed the deterrioration of US society that supposedly accompanies all of the immigration. I'm not an educated debator on this issue, but when I hear people talk about being afraid of immigration, the feeling I usually hear is that people are just afraid of a Hispanic majority in this country. That doesn't bother me.

You haven't seen the deterioration? Come to Los Angeles and the rest of Southern Mexifornia, I'll give you a personalized tour.

Downtown Los Angeles, once a mecca of theatre, fine dining, and amazing architecture has been transformed in a period of about ten years to a third world cesspool.

Where businesses once thrived and office workers once filled the streets, Tijuana-style mercados fill the bottom floors of abandoned office buildings, grafitti and trash are everywhere, and barely anyone speaks English.

Maywood, California--a pleasant middle-class town during my childhood years, now 90% Hispanic with about 75% of that being illegal. Neighborhoods full of barred windows and yards, grafitti on nearly every available surface, trash dumped on the side of industrial streets, the town itself has become an official sanctuary city for illegal aliens.

For now, you are living in the proverbial ivory tower. You haven't seen the devastation that millions of poor and illiterate from a third world country can wreak on a community within a decade.

But you will..yep, you will.

[lammius]

legal or illegal isn't the man's issue. He's concerned with numbers. One million people a year! Run for cover! Why? Because population growth puts higher demand on services? Well yeah, but I think the bigger problem is the manner in which we grow. We develop land in the most sprawling, inefficient way imaginable. If we smarten up how we grow, we can accommodate much more population growth.

[JoeJoeMan]

OK folks let's cut to the chase, here is, if not the real reason, than a very significant reason why our wonderful government allows this problem to continue. Simple answer....they want it too.
Why ? Because our economy is dependent on it, our economy is based and depenedent upon an every increasing population, your've heard the term, "expanding" or "growing" economy, it needs a growing population to do that in large part, did you ever wonder way it has to keep growing and why the make such a big fuss about it ? Simply put our fiat monitary systems is based on an ever expanding supply of money, (it's out of the scope of this topic for now, but go read up on it).
So our economy is expand or collapse, our country forces the expansion by letting millions flood into this country. Their presence does a varitey of things, for one the force expansion of the houseing market, morgages, banking, etc, the illegals infuse an area and driving everyone else out, out to the surburbs in a lot of cases, new homes, etc.
But that is only part of the story, they (illegals) sop up all the monitary liquidity the Federal Reserve and our governemnt is pouring into the system, in and effort to keep alive this false economy we now have, In case you haven't noticed Bush is spending money like a drunken salior, where do you think most of that money comes from? - borrowed, created from thin air by the Federal Reserve, all in all it is quite and inflationary practice,
Not to mention the illegals keep the lid down on all wages, countering the inflation practices of our government.....
In short allow the illegals to flood in is a desperate attempt to keep our economy alive and cover up the past and present sins of our self-severing corporate & socialistic government.
America is suppose to be the beacon of economies in the world, and we dominate the world not only militarily but also by use of the US dollar as a world currency, we cannot allow the world to see our phoney economy for what it is, so we do anything we can to keep it alive......including selling out our own people and way of life by allowing millions of low life illegals to flood in and over take our country like a sewer backing up into your backyard, it is really a sad and disgusting situation......our yuppie baby bummer politicians we have in office don't seem to be the least bit concerned with what will happen after they are dead and gone and how our children will have to deal with the mess left behind. But the seeds for this were planted long ago, such is the price for the pursiut of self indulgence, remember the motto of the current generation we have running the country now is "sex drugs and rock and roll".........it wasn't "refrine from vice and leave a better place for our children"........what children, we don't have children anymore, they get in the way of our selfindulgent way of life.......if we did have children our population and economy wouldn't need the flood of 3rd worlders coming in to prop it up.......you get the picture, we're paying for our own sins, the chickens our coming home to roost, your parents try to tell you that in so many ways, put the 18 year hippies thought all those mind exanding drugs made them smart than any humans ever born.......the hippy philosopy is now taking it tolls....... even if we had the brains to stop the illegals problem we ain't got the b*lls to do anything about it. I guess we finally got the government we deserve.

[Kele]

Originally Posted by lammius

legal or illegal isn't the man's issue. He's concerned with numbers. One million people a year! Run for cover! Why? Because population growth puts higher demand on services? Well yeah, but I think the bigger problem is the manner in which we grow. We develop land in the most sprawling, inefficient way imaginable. If we smarten up how we grow, we can accommodate much more population growth.

Maybe so, but why should that population growth be made up of the refuse from south of the border? Even their own government encourages them to leave. Why? Because they are poor and illiterate and contribute nothing to the economy unless they are working in the U.S., undermining the wage base, and sending the money, to the tune of billions of dollars per year, back to Mexico.

If we were to smarten up about who we let into this country and in what numbers, we wouldn't have to have this dialogue at all.

[rebuilder]

Couldn't have said it better myself JoeJoeMan......

[TexasNick]

Originally Posted by lammius

I've watched the video 3 times. I get his point, but the graphics are just intended to get a jaw-drop out of an audience. I don't see much value in it.

And what I meant about not knowing where the problem is, is that I haven't witnessed the deterrioration of US society that supposedly accompanies all of the immigration. I'm not an educated debator on this issue, but when I hear people talk about being afraid of immigration, the feeling I usually hear is that people are just afraid of a Hispanic majority in this country. That doesn't bother me.

I think people have a right to be "afraid of a Hispanic majority" because of the problems associated with them that you see in the border states and creeping up into small town America. Nevermind our cities are already heavily buckled in debt. Wouldn't you be concerned, too? If the problem was Chinese, then we'd be a little pissed about that too, but they are not the problem. The problem is the Mexican immigration problem that carries the unfortunate symptoms of a Third World country. Sure, there are good Mexicans that pay taxes, work hard and live a clean, American life, but we are just not seeing that right now. For example the following issues are a direct result of the immigration problem: gangs, overpopulated ER rooms, insurance, language barriers, etc. I hope that is clear enough for you to understand why some of us don't like our current immigration situation. We have a right to be upset and you have a right to counter, but we have to draw the line somewhere or we'll just be another France (remember those Paris riots?).

[Kele]

Originally Posted by lammius

I've watched the video 3 times. I get his point, but the graphics are just intended to get a jaw-drop out of an audience. I don't see much value in it.

And what I meant about not knowing where the problem is, is that I haven't witnessed the deterrioration of US society that supposedly accompanies all of the immigration. I'm not an educated debator on this issue, but when I hear people talk about being afraid of immigration, the feeling I usually hear is that people are just afraid of a Hispanic majority in this country. That doesn't bother me.

Personally, I am not afraid of Hispanics in general (where is Hispania by the way?) but living in Los Angeles County, I am afraid of the Hispanic majority and for good reason.

According to Heather McDonald in her article entitled, "The Illegal Alien Crimewave," a confidential California Department of Justice study reported in 1995 that 60 percent of the 20,000-strong 18th Street Gang in southern California is illegal; police officers say the proportion is actually much greater. The bloody gang collaborates with the Mexican Mafia, the dominant force in California prisons, on complex drug-distribution schemes, extortion, and drive-by assassinations, and commits an assault or robbery every day in L.A. County. The gang has grown dramatically over the last two decades by recruiting recently arrived youngsters, most of them illegal, from Central America and Mexico.

The leadership of the Columbia Lil’ Cycos gang, which uses murder and racketeering to control the drug market around L.A.’s MacArthur Park, was about 60 percent illegal in 2002, says former assistant U.S. attorney Luis Li. Francisco Martinez, a Mexican Mafia member and an illegal alien, controlled the gang from prison, while serving time for felonious re-entry following deportation.

Good luck finding any reference to such facts in official crime analysis. The LAPD and the L.A. city attorney recently requested an injunction against drug trafficking in Hollywood, targeting the 18th Street Gang and the “non–gang members” who sell drugs in Hollywood for the gang. Those non–gang members are virtually all illegal Mexicans, smuggled into the country by a ring organized by 18th Street bigs. The Mexicans pay off their transportation debts to the gang by selling drugs; many soon realize how lucrative that line of work is and stay in the business.

Cops and prosecutors universally know the immigration status of these non-gang “Hollywood dealers,” as the city attorney calls them, but the gang injunction is assiduously silent on the matter. And if a Hollywood officer were to arrest an illegal dealer (known on the street as a “border brother”) for his immigration status, or even notify the Immigration and Naturalization Service (since early 2003, absorbed into the new Department of Homeland Security), he would face severe discipline for violating Special Order 40, the city’s sanctuary policy.

The ordinarily tough-as-nails former LAPD chief Daryl Gates enacted Special Order 40 in 1979—showing that even the most unapologetic law-and-order cop is no match for immigration advocates. The order prohibits officers from “initiating police action where the objective is to discover the alien status of a person”—in other words, the police may not even ask someone they have arrested about his immigration status until after they have filed criminal charges, nor may they arrest someone for immigration violations. They may not notify immigration authorities about an illegal alien picked up for minor violations. Only if they have already booked an illegal alien for a felony or for multiple misdemeanors may they inquire into his status or report him. The bottom line: a cordon sanitaire between local law enforcement and immigration authorities that creates a safe haven for illegal criminals.

To read the entire article go to:

http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_...gal_alien.html

[JoeJoeMan]

rebuilder wrote:

Couldn't have said it better myself JoeJoeMan......

thanks guy

It seems that you must have a better underlying understanding of the economics at play here with respect to the illegals.
I've heard, and correct me if I'm wrong, but the population of americans (legal one) has stablized, meaning it's not growing, which is a serious or would be a serious problem for a propted up false economy, thus the willingness of the policticians to allow the invasion.
I beleive we have serious defects in our economy, there simply isn't enough jobs to go around, real jobs, jobs that one would call "a livelyhood", sure lots of retail, resturant, low pay types of jobs.....but over the years we've automated or mechinized alot of jobs simply out of existence, the economy did seem to be adjusting to that, "seem to", in any event then "out sourcing" came along, and whuss there when more jobs, then free trade and NAFTA sucked out more jobs, then the invasion of illeagals hold down wages all across the board on the bottom end. As much as I'm for free markerts and capitalisim, I think capitalism has run amuck. And capitalism way of life is what our politicians are always selling to the world, what an embarresment if our's were to fall apart, we'll it actually already has, we just don't knwo it yet.
Our government has to spend money like crazy to keep the economy propted up, flushing out money to the masses, governemnt jobs and social programs, grant money, etc. That's why they'll never cut back government spending or balance the budget, I think this is all the dirtly little secrect our government doesn't want anyone to know.
So far they've been managing to keep the wolves at the gate, flood the economy with cash, the 90's stock market bubble, fortunately the internet came along and help create some tech jobs and related work, then the housing market - turned bubble, some say we now have an asset bubble economy now. We don't really do or create much anymore, just kinda buy things inflate the price and sell it for more, and all the peripheral jobs of advertising and productivity the swirl around them. then there is the baby-boomer consumer, just buying anything to satisfy their whims, or supersizing their house just for the sake of it.
The illegals need to be all removed one way or the other from our country, and then those jobs and the economy willl adjust and the pay will raise for those jobs, those jobs low skill or whatever as they are are needed by our own people and the wages need to adjust upward as they might naturally do without a flood of cheap illegal labor. We can't all in amercian be doctors, lawyers, engineers, etc, and those lesser jobs need to become decent and honorable livelyhoods for a lot of people.
But enough said for now.

[texanborn]

Originally Posted by lammius

legal or illegal isn't the man's issue. He's concerned with numbers. One million people a year! Run for cover! Why? Because population growth puts higher demand on services? Well yeah, but I think the bigger problem is the manner in which we grow. We develop land in the most sprawling, inefficient way imaginable. If we smarten up how we grow, we can accommodate much more population growth.

And where will all of the extra water we will need come from, there are already talks of shortages not to far in the future, parts of the country are having a shortage now...what about the food we will need to grow....and worst of all what will we do with all of the extra trash and **** ?