Atlanta Hospital's Plan to Shut Clinic Sparks Suit by Illegal Aliens (illegal immigrants, represent)
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For people who are supposedly "frightened and living in the shadows" -- they certainly have no problem appearing in public when it involves lawsuits demanding U.S. taxpayers to foot the bills for their medical treatment.
Had this hospital not been inundated with non-paying illegal aliens, it would most likely be able to continue to provide services for the indigent “citizens” of Atlanta.
Maybe there should be a way to have illegals fund these clinics themselves, maybe a tax on their incomes, pre-remittance. They've got on the average $400 a month extra every month to wire out of the country but they don't have money to pay their bills here first?
You heard right. A sick person that has kidney failure cannot endure crossing the dangerous border. He would be too weak and some of those trips can take up even a week, if not more. BTW, my uncle is very poor.
Your scenario is unrealistic.
They do it all the time. It's not a dangerous border, most cross over in the official international ports of entry, which is quite easy if you aren't carrying drugs. All it takes is a shopping visa or visitor visa.
There are buses like "Los Paisanos" or "Americanos" they can hop on that will take them to California, Phoenix or many other cities in the USA. Or they find another way like the trunk of someone's car when they reach the border check points 80 miles in, but before and after the checkpoint, they have no problem at all.
Why can't each of these patients simply be given an express bus ticket back to Mexico City? I'm sure the government there will be waiting with open arms and an available dialysis machine. I'll volunteer to tell each one of them face-to-face that the medical care gravy train has just derailed and it's time to go home. Wouldn't bother me a bit to do so.
Most of the people who come to the US seeking medical treatment do not come by making the difficult trek across the border. They come in on a visitor's visa and never leave. I believe about half our total illegal population are visa overstays under normal circumstances, I am not certain of the specific percentage.
I don't doubt that your ailing uncle could not make such a trip, maybe a very young person could make a short trip if they left right after a dialysis treatment but it seems to me that would be very dangerous.
There are illegal immigrants who do come to the US for medical care.
As you know, dialysis is available in Mexico but they do not have nearly the number of beds per capita that we do. Also, I am pretty sure that when medical care is provided to indigent citizens in Mexico, they are expected to pay at least part of the expenses based on a sliding scale of what they can afford. The lure of easier access to dialysis (perhaps taking a half hour bus ride in the US as opposed to traveling for 2 hours to get to the clinic in Mexico) combined with never paying anything simply proves to be too much for some to resist. In addition to the fact that they know once they are here and receiving dialysis, it will be very difficult to return them to their home country unless they agree to go. If they do not want to leave, they will and do claim that deporting them will be sending them to their deaths. The illegal alien from Ethiopia may have a point, but the ones from Mexico do not.
article gives a summary of services available for kidney failure (ESRD) patients in Mexico.
People's kidneys typically do not fail suddenly. Someone may suddenly develop renal failure after severe injury or very serious illness, but most of the time the patient experiences a gradual decline in kidney function until they are at the point that they need dialysis to stay alive. IMO, many of the people who come here and end up on dialysis 6 months after they get to the US know ahead of time that they have a serious medical problem, that is why they come here. To get the best available care (although many would argue with that) at no expense to themselves. If you want, I can link to specific examples of people who come to the US for medical care, including dialysis, later on. I don't have time right now.- andreabeth
Ya know with all this common sense and what not it's turning this thread upside down Please stop with the common sense ya'all.
I'll borrow a quote from a illegal alien sympathizer from another thread, but in this case it refers to them:
"thats were they lose all rationale.
its pure reactionism.
not very thought out.
get used to it."
Next they'll be blaming the US for causing the illegals kidney disease.
The only "get used to it" that is happening right now is that the tax paying middle and poorer Americans have had it with these law breakers. Get used to Americans not putting up with people coming here Illegally and thinking they are entitled to anything.
Case in point:
The last article about illegal immigration ran by the local UT had over 1000 comments that were mostly negative about illegal immigration. That trumped even those topics like gay marriage. If they can't get support in a border town like SD they are not going to get it anywhere.
Last edited by 1AngryTaxPayer; 09-26-2009 at 09:01 PM..
Prince William County in Virginia is one of the few places to show success in chasing out illegal immigrants. The local hospitals there have shown a marked decrease in costs as a result and are better able to deliver services to those who are entitled to it. Illegals are not entitled to any medical care, emergency or otherwise, at taxpayer expense.
Prince William County in Virginia is one of the few places to show success in chasing out illegal immigrants. The local hospitals there have shown a marked decrease in costs as a result and are better able to deliver services to those who are entitled to it. Illegals are not entitled to any medical care, emergency or otherwise, at taxpayer expense.
Add Maricopa County (Phx area) where I live............illegals have been fleeing in droves---------to the point that quite a few grocery stores that cater to the lower class Hispanic clientele are closing their doors.
Most of the people who come to the US seeking medical treatment do not come by making the difficult trek across the border. They come in on a visitor's visa and never leave. I believe about half our total illegal population are visa overstays under normal circumstances, I am not certain of the specific percentage.
I don't doubt that your ailing uncle could not make such a trip, maybe a very young person could make a short trip if they left right after a dialysis treatment but it seems to me that would be very dangerous.
I can respect your opinion andreabeth, though it doesnt change my mind. You show no evidence that illegal immigrants cross the border or overstay their visa just to get medical benefits. Though I do appreciate reading this interesting article you posted about medical services in Mexico.
You are very right that the majority of illegal immigrants actually overstay their visas...that is a fact. That it is difficult to cross the border is undeniable. I know people who have and have heard many stories. Some never make it and die at the border, some are abused by the same disgusting coyotes.
Statistics do show that most immigrants who are here illegally come for better opportunities. Not for healthcare. What is common to hear is that a family member in Mexico gets sick, needs urgent medical attention, maybe surgery and now the family is in debt to another with thousands of dollars. One of the family members decides to immigrate illegally to the US to work (temporarily) and pay the debt. Though that "temporarily" often turns into years. Once you have a family here, it becomes impossible to leave the family and start at a lower living standard...while at the same time crushing your dreams to provide an education to your children.
I complely agree with the author. I know people in Mexico that pay for healthcare insurance at a low cost. In the specific state mentioned in the article, most pay $50 dollars a year for free medical services on their children's "Seguro Popular". What is expensive is the medicine. Depending on the type of medication, some are as high as $50 a pk. and last a week. I know because I used to pay for my grandmother's medication while she was still alive. Some Mexicans can afford this type of insurance and some unfortunately dont.
What is fortunate, is that the Mexican government finally introduced a proposal to help those that are poor and unable to pay for healthcare.
Quote:
After crossing the facilities of nosocomio, Calderón maintained especially that its administration is determined to drive the programs for the most vulnerable sectors, in the matter of health, where the budget for the Popular Insurance will be increased in 20% if the sent proposal is approved.
Translation result for http://www.eluniversal.com.mx/ (http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?trurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.eluniversal.c om.mx%2F&lp=es_en&.intl=us&fr=fptb-701 - broken link)
This is good news for you, since you think many come here for healthcare. It is good for me since I still have family in Mexico but most of all good for Mexican nationals.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth
There are illegal immigrants who do come to the US for medical care.
I'm sure there are, though I dont think many do. Its not a trend to come here for healthcare. As a matter of fact, its just the opposite. There is a big trend from US citizens to go to Mexico and get cheaper healthcare and better alternative care. I have been to centers where many have been cured of cancer with natural medicine. Many are Americans. I also met a few that were in the US illegally and returned to get this type of healthcare, sponsored by other family members who continued to work in the US. Some patients who's bills are being paid by a family member in the US, working illegally or legally.
The majority of illegal immigrants come to this country because they feel capable of working and have strong desires to get their family out of poverty in their countries or provide them with better opportunities there, with the sweat of their backs. Though honestly, I do feel that many do get injured here in the US due to their jobs. Now that, I would say you are correct, they receive healthcare when they are in urgent care. I know many illegal immigrants that will not even take their US born children to see a doctor unless they are in so much pain that they require urgent care at the ER.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth
As you know, dialysis is available in Mexico but they do not have nearly the number of beds per capita that we do. Also, I am pretty sure that when medical care is provided to indigent citizens in Mexico, they are expected to pay at least part of the expenses based on a sliding scale of what they can afford.
Yes, as I have mentioned above.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth
The lure of easier access to dialysis (perhaps taking a half hour bus ride in the US as opposed to traveling for 2 hours to get to the clinic in Mexico) combined with never paying anything simply proves to be too much for some to resist. In addition to the fact that they know once they are here and receiving dialysis, it will be very difficult to return them to their home country unless they agree to go. If they do not want to leave, they will and do claim that deporting them will be sending them to their deaths. The illegal alien from Ethiopia may have a point, but the ones from Mexico do not.
I am aware that dialysis is the last stage and that it is a long and slow process working to that point. I know because as I have mentioned, my own uncle is battling with it himself.
However, it is unrealistic to think that if someone considers two hours, too long to get their medical needs...much less does it make sense to travel 30-40 and possibly more hours to get to the US for medical services. I'm sorry but I dont believe it, its just not real. As a matter of fact, most who do immigrate will only come if they are healthy enough to do hard labor. Which means, if they get sick, most likely, they were not aware they were until it was too late. People want to live a quality of life vs quantity. Leaving their families far away just to prolong their lives, without them..goes against all we know about "life". Who wants to die without the people they care about the most? Makes no sense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth
article gives a summary of services available for kidney failure (ESRD) patients in Mexico.
People's kidneys typically do not fail suddenly. Someone may suddenly develop renal failure after severe injury or very serious illness, but most of the time the patient experiences a gradual decline in kidney function until they are at the point that they need dialysis to stay alive. IMO, many of the people who come here and end up on dialysis 6 months after they get to the US know ahead of time that they have a serious medical problem, that is why they come here. To get the best available care (although many would argue with that) at no expense to themselves. If you want, I can link to specific examples of people who come to the US for medical care, including dialysis, later on. I don't have time right now.- andreabeth
That is very interesting that you say immigrants give themselves six months to file for dialysis. Is there a link to that?
One of the negative aspects in Mexican culture is that we tend to "self-medicate". Anything to avoid going to the doctor. "I can find a cure for this symptom...must be a minor thing. A tea will do."...until its too late. This goes for those that are in this country as well.
Thank you though for taking the time to respond. I hope you will consider the information on my post.
I can respect your opinion andreabeth, though it doesnt change my mind. You show no evidence that illegal immigrants cross the border or overstay their visa just to get medical benefits. Though I do appreciate reading this interesting article you posted about medical services in Mexico.
Yes, they do. An illegal alien is not going to sneak into the US or overstay a visa because they have a broken leg or need stitches. The ones who come here to get medical benefits typically have complex medical problems that are very expensive to treat. This has to stop.
Quote:
LOS ANGELES - Ana Puente was an infant with a liver disorder when her aunt brought her illegally to the United States to seek medical care. She underwent two liver transplants at the University of California, Los Angeles Medical Center as a child in 1989 and a third in 1998, each paid for by the state.
I've written about this before, this illegal aliens had run up over $2 million in medical bills as of a year and a half ago. That was before her 4th liver transplant. God only knows what her total is up to by now.
Dr. Evil: One billion gazillion trillion dollars!!
For all we know, that might very well be what it is.
Note that auntie brought her to the US illegally specifically for the purpose of taking advantage of the US healthcare system. She knew exactly what she was doing when she hustled this kid, who she already knew was sick into the US so Uncle Sucker and the US taxpayers would be stuck footing the astronomical bills for her care in perpetuity.
This is the best part of the entire story. This is what the recipient of $2+ million dollars of US healthcare had to say about the situation:
Quote:
"It doesn't matter if I'm undocumented," Puente said. "They should take care of me at UCLA for the rest of my life because I've been there since I was a baby."
You know something? Yes, it does matter that she is undocumented.
Organ transplants for immigrants stir debate in Calif. - The Boston Globe (http://tinyurl.com/4lk496 - broken link)
Next we have Jesica Santillan, a mexican citizen with cardiac problems.
Quote:
According to Times reporter Denise Grady, "Ms. Santillan's family moved from Mexico to North Carolina three years ago in hopes that she could be treated at Duke for restrictive cardiomyopathy, which caused an enlarged, weakened heart and damaged lungs."
But as other media outlets have more accurately and honestly detailed, Santillan's family didn't just "move" here. They came here illegally by paying a coyote $5,000 to smuggle Santillan and her mother across the border for the express purpose of obtaining medical care and circumventing long wait times in Mexico.
You may remember the story. She came here illegally for a heart and lung transplant and died after complications arose because she was given organs of the wrong blood type after a tragic error. Madre of course sued Duke, received a (probably sizable) cash settlement, and to the best of my knowledge is still here in the US with her other two mexican citizen kids.
Meet the Hernandez familia. Madre became pregnant with quintuplets in Mexico after taking fertility drugs. She was receiving prenatal care in Mexico and knew she was carrying five babies. In 2005, there was already at least one set of quintuplets that had been born in Mexico and all survived so clearly the country was able to provide sophisticated neonatal care if needed. However..................... madre, padre and other offspring
Quote:
decided
to visit the U.S. when she was four months pregnant. "I saw there are more opportunities here--better technology, more
resources," she said. And a sucker government to pick up the tab.
Castellanos paid $15 to visit a gynecologist at a clinic, which referred
her to Loyola University Medical Center. She was hospitalized there 23
weeks into her pregnancy when she went through premature contractions.
The babies were born at 30 weeks and weighed between 2 and 3 pounds
each. The quintuplets stayed in the hospital from three to 13 weeks.
The births and subsequent medical care were expensive. On average, it
costs $5,000 per day to care for premature babies, $1,219 of which is
reimbursed by Medicaid. The hospital absorbs the remaining costs, said
Sandra Martinez, Loyola spokeswoman.
That $15 is most likely the only money we will ever see from her.
Madre then complains after an appearance on 'spanish' TV fails to generate donations.
Quote:
"We realized there would be no help," she said.
As I recall, the hospital bill was around $250,000. Now all five quints are US citizens, the family will never leave and they will continue to cost us bucks forever (many preemies continue to have medical problems and/or developmental delays and need healthcare and special services long after they leave the ICU).
The article this is taken from is in the January 26, 2005 issue of the Chicago Tribune. You can no longer link to it but it can be purchased if you want to read the entire thing.
I have just shown evidence that they do indeed cross borders and overstay visas in order to gain access to the US healthcare system.
When these indivuduals applied for a visa or visa renewal, do you think for one second that they clearly stated their intentions? Do you think the woman with quintuplets said, "I am coming here to have my babies because everything is so nice and new, I won't have to pay for it and once they are 'citizens' you will never be able to make us leave"? Do you think she said that? You see, I don't think she did. And I am tired of this nonsense.
Quote:
At the same time, we expect you, the visa applicant, to:
Plan your travel and visa application as far in advance as possible.
Complete your application fully and accurately.
Be forthcoming about your purpose and plans.
Prepare for your interview by being able to clearly and concisely describe your intentions.
Last edited by andreabeth; 10-01-2009 at 01:25 PM..
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Please stop with the common sense ya'all. 
