Why I am a liberal/lefty who is AGAINST illegal immgration and amnesty for them. (employment, weapons)

[macmeal]

Originally Posted by andreabeth

Honey, if we only did things because it 'serves us', we wouldn't have millions of illegal aliens in the US and god only knows how many more trying to get in.

I believe I am just about through with this.

I know the feeling. Aspirin sometimes helps.

[that1guy]

Originally Posted by andreabeth

Honey, if we only did things because it 'serves us', we wouldn't have millions of illegal aliens in the US and god only knows how many more trying to get in.

I believe I am just about through with this.

That's good since that was a really, really bad argument in trying to prove that we are incredibly pious.

[that1guy]

Originally Posted by macmeal

I know the feeling. Aspirin sometimes helps.

Yeah it is hard trying to stop this negativity...you know saying that racial profiling is a bad thing, trying to say that we should look over those in need in society. But judging from some of your comments, I doubt you would know. Hope that aspirin works.

[Randomstudent]

Originally Posted by that1guy

Yes they were...Chile was a long time Spanish colony and Greece for much of its modern and early modern history was a divided between, the Ottoman Empire and various Italian city states. Cyprus along with Greece had been subject to Ottoman and latter British possession as well and fought a long civil war to rid them selves of British rule. Brazil was also heavily colonized as was Malaysia by Portugal and Britain respectively. Taiwan and South Korea were heavily colonized by Japan.

Certain cities in Greece are considered part of the Iridentia...thus A PART of Italy. South Korea was seen as A PART of Japan. Not a colony, but like how California is A PART of the US. Brazil is a good example of colonial mismangement. Northern Brazil is not the same as Sao Paulo. Plus, it contains one of the world's largest wealth gaps...Great colonial holdover.

As to Africa in general it is worse then the rest of the world, but relatively speaking the same situation applies there. There are some place in Africa like the Cape Verde Is. and Botswana, which have their act together relative to the rest of Africa are getting better and other places like the DROC and the Central African Republic that don't and aren't.

Botswana was a colonial afterthought. Cape Verde was considered a "least developing nation" in 2006. Now, it's managed "developed" status. Better, to be sure. However, it's not a spectacular rise. You are right, the same situation applies. Colonialization did "wonders" for Africa...

I believe Algeria was considered part of France much like Korea, and Iridentia and they are still a mess. Just because something is considered part of something else does not mean it isn't a de facto colony. Again certain places have there act together others don't.

As for Africa it is, in general, worse then most places, but it is still proves the rule. Many places in Africa are much better then other places, because they have figured out they need to get there act together and many African countries are moving in the right direction on their own, while others are just blaming the rest of the world for their problems and stagnating.

[that1guy]

I believe Algeria was considered part of France much like Korea, and Iridentia and they are still a mess. Just because something is considered part of something else does not mean it isn't a de facto colony. Again certain places have there act together others don't.

Not exactly. Algerians were not considered French. My parents lived in Oran after the war. The French that lived in Algeria considered themselves to be part of Metropolitan France, but Algerians did not have the same rights as the French...unless they abandoned their Muslim identity. Apartheid was alive in Algeria.

As for Africa it is, in general, worse then most places, but it is still proves the rule. Many places in Africa are much better then other places, because they have figured out they need to get there act together and many African countries are moving in the right direction on their own, while others are just blaming the rest of the world for their problems and stagnating.

I understand your point. However, it does not negate the fact that the West is more than partially responsible for the horrors that occur and have occurred in the third world. Actually African countries were deeply affected by the world crisis, more so than the West. Neocolonialism is alive and well...

[ArizonaBear]

Originally Posted by that1guy

I believe Algeria was considered part of France much like Korea, and Iridentia and they are still a mess. Just because something is considered part of something else does not mean it isn't a de facto colony. Again certain places have there act together others don't.

Not exactly. Algerians were not considered French. My parents lived in Oran after the war. The French that lived in Algeria considered themselves to be part of Metropolitan France, but Algerians did not have the same rights as the French...unless they abandoned their Muslim identity. Apartheid was alive in Algeria.

As for Africa it is, in general, worse then most places, but it is still proves the rule. Many places in Africa are much better then other places, because they have figured out they need to get there act together and many African countries are moving in the right direction on their own, while others are just blaming the rest of the world for their problems and stagnating.

I understand your point. However, it does not negate the fact that the West is more than partially responsible for the horrors that occur and have occurred in the third world. Actually African countries were deeply affected by the world crisis, more so than the West. Neocolonialism is alive and well...

What I bolded is not any variety of apartheid----------it is simply adapting one's culture to be accepted as equals by the dominant society. The reality is that too many so-called Muslims are basically bottom feeders socioeconomically. OTOH: the Middle Class ones tend to be quite secular.

The closest analogy here in the USA would be legal Hispanic immigrants assimilating as Americans and embracing Anglo culture-----------like all other groups who came here legally since the USA was founded

[Randomstudent]

Originally Posted by that1guy

I believe Algeria was considered part of France much like Korea, and Iridentia and they are still a mess. Just because something is considered part of something else does not mean it isn't a de facto colony. Again certain places have there act together others don't.

Not exactly. Algerians were not considered French. My parents lived in Oran after the war. The French that lived in Algeria considered themselves to be part of Metropolitan France, but Algerians did not have the same rights as the French...unless they abandoned their Muslim identity. Apartheid was alive in Algeria.

As for Africa it is, in general, worse then most places, but it is still proves the rule. Many places in Africa are much better then other places, because they have figured out they need to get there act together and many African countries are moving in the right direction on their own, while others are just blaming the rest of the world for their problems and stagnating.

I understand your point. However, it does not negate the fact that the West is more than partially responsible for the horrors that occur and have occurred in the third world. Actually African countries were deeply affected by the world crisis, more so than the West. Neocolonialism is alive and well...

Algeria was a department of France and if you think Koreans were considered Japanese in that example you are very wrong. Koreans most certainly did not have the same rights as Japanese even if they did abandon their identity as Koreans and try to pass.

Asia was also effected by colonialism. Malaysia was ripped apart by a 15 year war between communists and anti communists and Singapore upon independence had massive unemployment, race riots, chronic housing problems and no water supply to boot, but they overcame it as many African countries are overcoming their problems. To blame the problems of the third world on phantoms of colonialism is just counterproductive.

[that1guy]

Originally Posted by ArizonaBear

What I bolded is not any variety of apartheid----------it is simply adapting one's culture to be accepted as equals by the dominant society. The reality is that too many so-called Muslims are basically bottom feeders socioeconomically. OTOH: the Middle Class ones tend to be quite secular.

The closest analogy here in the USA would be legal Hispanic immigrants assimilating as Americans and embracing Anglo culture-----------like all other groups who came here legally since the USA was founded

The French gov't even said what they did was apartheid...You weren't there...you don't know.

[that1guy]

Also AZBear, not allowing land to be bought, lack of rights, in YOUR country is apartheid. Plus, the "middle class" were Muslims initially in Algeria...since it was THEIR country.

The closest analogy is when we came to California, literally took the Ranchos from the Californios and made them have certain provisions in order to obtain full rights. This was wrong.

Please read up on your history.

[that1guy]

Algeria was a department of France and if you think Koreans were considered Japanese in that example you are very wrong. Koreans most certainly did not have the same rights as Japanese even if they did abandon their identity as Koreans and try to pass.

Algerians in Algeria were not French...So the laws were not the same as in Metropolitan France. Even prior to my parents moving to Oran, my dad extensively lived in France and traveled to Algiers during the colonial era. It's citizens were subjected to worse treatment than those considered citizens.

Asia was also effected by colonialism. Malaysia was ripped apart by a 15 year war between communists and anti communists and Singapore upon independence had massive unemployment, race riots, chronic housing problems and no water supply to boot, but they overcame it as many African countries are overcoming their problems. To blame the problems of the third world on phantoms of colonialism is just counterproductive.

Asia had better infrastructure than Africa during the colonial era. More money was spent on infrastructure works. African countries are simply subjected to neocolonialism due to a system in place from colonialism. To deny history, however dark it may seem, is to not understand how to fix the problem. Simply saying, "okay, let's go." without understanding the underlying causes is more counterproductive.