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In view of your answer I can understand why you hold the views that you do. I have not had such experiences and therefore do not hold the same views. But I understand your viewpoint.
The evidence is out there everywhere. Our views on illegal immigraton should be based on how it effects all of our fellow Americans not just ourselves. Even though we may not have had the same experiences of violence and arrogance from the illegals, they are impacting us negatively in many other ways which have been discussed in here numerous times already. What will it take for some to stop being apologists for them?
So your ship sinks and you and a few find yourselves lucky enough to have a rowboat. You pick up as many people and help them in the boat. Do you continue to pile people into your boat until it also sinks? Same thing with a country, sooner or later you have no country.
At least we both agree that macmeal’s post is excellent. I am not sure what aspect of my response led to you believe I did not fully understand the answer macmeal provided.
Thank you both..and Benicar pretty well summed it up. As I said, you take away the 'racism' of the anti-illegals....and then you take away the 'racism' of the pro-illegals....and what you have left is the issue of "illegality". That's no inconsiderable point, and I'd have to say the vast majority of THOSE folks (the 'anti-illegality regardless of race' contingent) are on the 'anti-illegal' side.
There are obviously a few related issues as well....ethnic solidarity..."white guilt"....The position of the Catholic Church (my group)..and those who just enjoy 'siding with the underdog' and 'thumbing their noses at authority' in general...but even all THESE folks do have a certain amount of 'racial awareness' in their thinking. (Would there be 'white guilt' if the illegals were Europeans? Would the Catholic Church be QUITE so protective of millions of Muslim illegals? Would Hispanic activists 'beat the drum' for the cause of Asian illegals?....maybe ...but maybe not).
Thank you both..and Benicar pretty well summed it up. As I said, you take away the 'racism' of the anti-illegals....and then you take away the 'racism' of the pro-illegals....and what you have left is the issue of "illegality". That's no inconsiderable point, and I'd have to say the vast majority of THOSE folks (the 'anti-illegality regardless of race' contingent) are on the 'anti-illegal' side.
There are obviously a few related issues as well....ethnic solidarity..."white guilt"....The position of the Catholic Church (my group)..and those who just enjoy 'siding with the underdog' and 'thumbing their noses at authority' in general...but even all THESE folks do have a certain amount of 'racial awareness' in their thinking. (Would there be 'white guilt' if the illegals were Europeans? Would the Catholic Church be QUITE so protective of millions of Muslim illegals? Would Hispanic activists 'beat the drum' for the cause of Asian illegals?....maybe ...but maybe not).
Before anyone trys to debate any issue about illegal aliens they need to understand the reasons we have immigration laws..Some of the biggest critics of our laws dont even understand why we have them, and they are quick to call others racist etc,,,go figure
bek americans are dumbfounded that the government would against the law, allow 21 million illegals to come here and take our jobs and then remain here during a major recession. when the law breaks the law there is no law, billy jack.
There are always a number of divisive issues in the news—gay marriage, abortion rights, health care reform, and stem cell research are a few that come to mind. But I notice that most of these other divisive issues affect people DIRECTLY, ON A PERSONAL LEVEL (with the possible exception of stem cell research). The illegal alien debate doesn’t affect as many people on a personal, day-to-day basis. Many U.S. citizens seldom come in contact with illegal aliens. When is the last time an illegal alien stood in front of you at the grocery store? Or sat next to you in the dentists office? Have you every had an illegal alien commit a crime against you, personally?
I live in Dallas, which has a huge illegal alien population. I am definitely more affected by the illegal problem than I am by gay marriage (not gay), abortion rights (whatever), or stem cell research (are you kidding). The only issue you named that even comes close is health care reform.
There are always a number of divisive issues in the news—gay marriage, abortion rights, health care reform, and stem cell research are a few that come to mind. But I notice that most of these other divisive issues affect people DIRECTLY, ON A PERSONAL LEVEL (with the possible exception of stem cell research). The illegal alien debate doesn’t affect as many people on a personal, day-to-day basis. Many U.S. citizens seldom come in contact with illegal aliens. When is the last time an illegal alien stood in front of you at the grocery store? Or sat next to you in the dentists office? Have you every had an illegal alien commit a crime against you, personally?
Oh sure, people complain that illegals are a drag on our economy and clog up our schools and hospitals. But really, for our economy, it is nearly a wash: the cheap labor contributions of illegals come pretty close to compensating for the public goods and services illegal aliens use. As for hospitals and schools, the effect is most pronounced in the poorer, working class neighborhoods and rural areas. And the effect is incremental, adding a burden of some extra percentage of patients or students—say 10% to 30%—not like 90% or some utterly unmanageable amount.
So why is there a small contingent who vehemently dwell on this topic with such intensity? Has an illegal alien personally done something to you? Or is it because they have brown skin and different cultural customs? Why? Why?
edit: To change "small contingent of Caucasians" to "small contingent".
First, I would have to guess you either live in a state without a large illegal population or live a relatively sheltered and existence, because many of us do see and deal with the results of illegal immigration on a daily basis. Additionally, as others have said illegals are a large drain on social services if you ever someday decide to work/volunteer at a soup kitchen, or welfare service office you will, encounter many people who are illegal immigrants seeking and often receiving services that by the very nature are very limited and by using those services illegal immigrants prevent, in the case of social services, people who these services are set up for, and really need them, from receiving help from these organizations due to triage.
Secondly, are you serious about the idea of Americans getting a "wash on cheap labor"...give me a break. Last time I checked unemployment was at 9.8% and those numbers are even higher among young people. Employers get "a wash" by driving down wages and breaking the law to do so.
If you read my posts, I am liberal on about 85-90% of issues including affirmative action. The "why why" is simple. Illegal immigrants break our laws by coming here illegally, take services that were created to help those Americans who are most in need and as such deprive those most vunerable Americans of public services that could really help them. They also drive down the cost of labor hurting the American poor even more and on top of that you even state that some of localized the effects of illegal immigration are more "pronounced" in poorer areas.
As to illegal immigrants as criminals I see it as a poor person's version of white collar crime...They fake documents, exploit the system, and in general are only looking to cover there own ***** without regard to the hardworking Americans they are bankrupting in the process.
Last edited by Randomstudent; 10-14-2009 at 09:25 PM..
As ineffectual as our gov't is, it is among the best in the world. No--it is among the best in the history of the world. Without it our country would be in about the same shape as our friends to the south. And then Canada would begin to have illegal alien problems with Americans sneaking across the border to take away their low wage jobs.
NO because Canada has a worker permit law for all aliens that is enforced, Had it for years since Nam years and it works,
bek americans are dumbfounded that the government would against the law, allow 21 million illegals to come here and take our jobs and then remain here during a major recession. when the law breaks the law there is no law, billy jack.
The intent of this thread was why the illegal immigrant issue is such a divisive topic.
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