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Old 10-30-2009, 02:16 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
For some reason, your post strikes a chord with me. I've often thought MOST of the arguments on both sides of the illegal debate are little more than ethnocentric 'BS', false compassion, guilt, racism,anger, frustration, "tribalism", etc etc etc.

The fact is that MOST of this controversy is overblown side issues. You could envision a system wherein the US said "no more!...PERIOD!..the NEXT illegal immigrant we catch is GOING TO PRISON"....and yet, even so, if you offered WORK..at a fair wage..ANY kind of work....doing ANYTHING...and you insisted the workers come here ALONE....and if you made absolutely CERTAIN that they left at the end of their "gig"..the fact is that you'd STILL have people in tough situations in Third-World societies LINING UP to apply for these temporary jobs here in the US...and they'd be GLAD for the work, and they wouldn't feel "abused" when they left, they'd be happy for the money they took home...and probably try to do it all OVER again, in a year or two.

AS to WHY people come here illegally...I don't care...any more than I care why people cheat on exams, or steal, or fail to pay their rent, or use drugs, or drive without insurance. All I know is you can't DO these things, if you expect to live in an orderly, decent society. WHY people find themselves "doing" these things is a subject for a whole different book...and whether they're "good" people, or "bad" people, to me, is quite beside the point.
Amen!
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Old 10-30-2009, 03:14 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
60,081 posts, read 30,599,526 times
Reputation: 12815
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
Take the work away, along with the 14th amendment and what will happen?

Is it really that simple?

Yes it is really that simple.

How much of taxpayer dollars are spent on deporting and incarceration, before deporting?

I would certainly agree using taxpayer funds for deporting, to go after the employers and those harboring illegals, with an iron fist and a dark hole.
It would fix itself all the sudden.
Pass laws that jail fine and seize assets of the employers, eliminate the way outdated 14th amendment. Even children of slaves are in heaven and American Natives have their own Nations.
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:29 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Then why all the Mexican flags and refusal to learn even a little English?
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
For some reason, your post strikes a chord with me. I've often thought MOST of the arguments on both sides of the illegal debate are little more than ethnocentric 'BS', false compassion, guilt, racism,anger, frustration, "tribalism", etc etc etc.

The fact is that MOST of this controversy is overblown side issues. You could envision a system wherein the US said "no more!...PERIOD!..the NEXT illegal immigrant we catch is GOING TO PRISON"....and yet, even so, if you offered WORK..at a fair wage..ANY kind of work....doing ANYTHING...and you insisted the workers come here ALONE....and if you made absolutely CERTAIN that they left at the end of their "gig"..the fact is that you'd STILL have people in tough situations in Third-World societies LINING UP to apply for these temporary jobs here in the US...and they'd be GLAD for the work, and they wouldn't feel "abused" when they left, they'd be happy for the money they took home...and probably try to do it all OVER again, in a year or two.

AS to WHY people come here illegally...I don't care...any more than I care why people cheat on exams, or steal, or fail to pay their rent, or use drugs, or drive without insurance. All I know is you can't DO these things, if you expect to live in an orderly, decent society. WHY people find themselves "doing" these things is a subject for a whole different book...and whether they're "good" people, or "bad" people, to me, is quite beside the point.
Mac a I would rep you if I could. As usual 1 great well stated post. What more can be said than what you said? Your post sums it up perfectly...
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:40 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
This article is a breath of fresh air. The true facts coming from sources like Homeland Security, Public Policy Institute of California, US Census Bureau and Pew HC.



Does the first sentence sound familiar? "an invasion" is something Dobbs would use too...extremists.



These are real facts.



GilroyDispatch.com | Why most illegal immigrants come to America (http://www.gilroydispatch.com/opinion/260544-why-most-illegal-immigrants-come-to-america - broken link)
The problem is -- the whole world might like to come here for the big money they expect to have or easy life - but the whole world cannot come here. We need some immigration but immigration can't be a big free-for-all and it should not be limited to only one nation of people, excluding all others. Immigration should not be used for the purpose of bringing wages and benefits way down to nothing.

Immigration should be balanced, fair and legal and the immigrants should not be simply used as cheap peon labor. It should be getting people who truly wish to become part of the American people a chance to do so, but it should not be only all about money.
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Old 10-30-2009, 10:40 PM
 
Location: California
706 posts, read 796,028 times
Reputation: 179
Default change the law, don't break it !

Regardless of the reason illegal aliens come to this country.....It cannot be justified, rationalized, or forgiven.

When we allow one law to be broken, for whatever reason, we open the door for someone to use the same rationality to justify the breaking of another law.

Like it or not, The United States of America is a nation of laws.......NOT a democracy......

So, if you don't like the law,then change it. Don't break the law and then flaunt it by waving the flag of your country in my face......don't demand that I submit to Your demands, and meet any requirements you percieve as necessary for your betterment in the life you pursue. You might start by initiatiating Your pursuit with a little honesty and abiding by the laws of THIS country.....

You left your country for a reason.....I can only surmise that your reasons are valid....BUT.......if you do not have the courage to change your own miserable homeland, if you are to much of a coward to save your own country,your own family, then don't expect any sympathy from me.....Too many good people have died to make this country what it is today....While the USA has her warts and blemishes.....She is far and away ahead of the hell-hole you came from.....
Don't try to change Her in any way because your country failed you (or did you fail your country and family? )

TIC. TIC, TIC.
Borderlord
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Old 10-30-2009, 11:59 PM
 
Location: Southern Willamette Valley, Oregon
6,454 posts, read 7,553,239 times
Reputation: 12123
Regardless of the reason WHY they are here, the fact is they are here illegally. I have two words for this behavior: NOT WELCOME!

This next part is from another post I submitted earlier.

America is the land of the free, and I'm grateful for that. My ancestors passed through Ellis Island like most immigrants of the time. They embraced their new home, took the time to learn the language, and were productive members of our society contributing to American business and putting their hard earned money back into the American economy. And they sure as hell did not fly the flag of their homeland over the American flag at their place of business!

"Land of the free" does not mean free handouts for everybody.

It held true for that post as well as this one.
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Old 10-31-2009, 01:40 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by borderlord View Post
Regardless of the reason illegal aliens come to this country.....It cannot be justified, rationalized, or forgiven.

When we allow one law to be broken, for whatever reason, we open the door for someone to use the same rationality to justify the breaking of another law.

Like it or not, The United States of America is a nation of laws.......NOT a democracy......

So, if you don't like the law,then change it. Don't break the law and then flaunt it by waving the flag of your country in my face......don't demand that I submit to Your demands, and meet any requirements you percieve as necessary for your betterment in the life you pursue. You might start by initiatiating Your pursuit with a little honesty and abiding by the laws of THIS country.....

You left your country for a reason.....I can only surmise that your reasons are valid....BUT.......if you do not have the courage to change your own miserable homeland, if you are to much of a coward to save your own country,your own family, then don't expect any sympathy from me.....Too many good people have died to make this country what it is today....While the USA has her warts and blemishes.....She is far and away ahead of the hell-hole you came from.....
Don't try to change Her in any way because your country failed you (or did you fail your country and family? )

TIC. TIC, TIC.
Borderlord
Very well stated. Many of these are points I've made in the past. As an artificially-constructed society, multi-racial, multi-ethnic, and multi-religious, the USA depends for its continued existence on our willingness to abide by our own laws..lose that concept, and we stand to lose everything...and that's no exaggeration. If we aren't 'held together' by our VERY benevolent system of laws, then there's nothing else holding us together...no common race, religion, or 'lifestyle'.

That being the case, then as you say, there is no excuse....and there can BE no excuse...for wholesale 'bending' of laws...whether it's for 'good people' or bad...and whether it's for "my" ethnic group, or the other guy's....go down THAT road, and you end up with a balkanized, fractured society....just like so many other sad, depressing places around the world. THAT is the 'norm'...what we have here is NOT the 'norm', it's quite rare....and it will only remain that way under a system of impartial laws, not a mish-mash of ethnic 'set-asides', or 'exceptions, or 'different laws for different folks'. It may not be PERFECT here, but it's worlds ahead of the competition. I'd like to see it remain that way.

Start judging people's breaking laws on "why" they break them, and you'd soon be in a situation in which NO law meant anything.

One more parting "commercial" here, if you don't mind...it's often been suggested in these arguments that the US ought to be "more compassionate"..(the idea being that 'more compassion' would make illegals more welcome). That's largely sentimental hype. The fact is, the US is PLENTY compassionate...a fact reflected in the millions who immigrate here legally each year (including vast numbers of legal immigrants from Mexico). The US was EXTRA compassionate in 1986, when they gave amnesty to 3 million illegals. "Compassion" is a fine thing....but sometimes it's only a clever smoke-screen for taking the focus off the facts. Every person who's ever broken a law has undoubtedly wished society was more 'compassionate' (usually after he's caught). That fact, by itself, means very little out of context.

Thanks for your provocative post.
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:32 PM
 
Location: North Texas
23,599 posts, read 31,143,716 times
Reputation: 26661
Who cares why they come here?

The point is that they have no right to be here. None whatsoever. Every job they are taking is a job that an American used to do, but can no longer afford to do because illegal criminals in clown houses have undercut them and greedy employers are going along with it.

They all need to leave.
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Old 10-31-2009, 02:37 PM
 
Location: stairway to heaven
1,136 posts, read 555,143 times
Reputation: 242
Start jailing the employers and the illegals will go away practically over night.
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