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Old 11-01-2009, 01:39 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,790,161 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boompa View Post
A forthcoming study? They published their results before they completed the study? I think they may have started with a conclusion and worked backwards.



Dad moved here from Mexico
Exactly, Heather Macdonalds has her own agenda.


Quote:
According to her byline, Mac Donald "is a contributing editor of City Journal and the John M. Olin Fellow at the Manhattan Institute". She's also among America's harshest critic of blacks. Harshest and most devastating; unlike most of the right-wing blovio-sphere, home girl does her homework. And for her, 2 and 2 always equal black deficiency, whether in morals, culture or crime. Trouble is, she comes loaded for bear.
Know Your Enemy: Heather Mac Donald | Mother Jones
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Old 11-01-2009, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueseas123 View Post
I wanted to elaborate on this point since I feel this could be misconstrued. What I mean is that they are less in number in comparison with most Latino immigrants, and that most middle class to upper class Latinos are the type to stay in their respective countries, not immigrate to the United States.

And yes, AZbear, there is racism, but I firmly believe that anyone who uses that as a single crutch to say it holds them back academically is someone who wouldn't do well anyways. As evidenced by your example.
Very true-------------unless there is a major upheaval in a Latin American country then the elite would come to the USA* or possibly Spain. Cuba 1959 comes to mind.

*most of those folks would either already have US visas or would gladly be sent to an internment camp till their political asylum cases were heard.
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Old 11-01-2009, 01:50 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,790,161 times
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Quote:
But Derbyshire isn’t the only immoderate voice on NRO. Heather Mac Donald, whose tirades against Hispanics have appeared on NRO and numerous other places, is one of conservatism’s most influential, young public intellectuals and one of the movement’s most prolific writers. There is much in her work to admire — but she has recently become careless, even vitriolic, when it comes to writing about Hispanics.

This is not the first time Mac Donald has played fast and loose with her facts. In an article she wrote in 2004 for City Journal, “The Illegal Alien Crime Wave,” Mac Donald asserted, “In Los Angeles, 95 percent of all outstanding warrants for homicide (which total 1,200 to 1,500) target illegal aliens. Up to two-thirds of all fugitive felony warrants (17,000) are for illegal aliens.” The problem is, the statistic is entirely bogus — and worse it has become one of the most ubiquitous factoids used in the debate on immigration, cited in congressional testimony, repeated ad nauseum on cable news and talk radio, and has even been picked up by some otherwise sensible voices in the immigration debate
The Company You Keep by Linda Chavez on National Review Online
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Old 11-01-2009, 01:53 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
It’s a cultural phenomenon, not genetic. Children learn what they live. If underachievement is instilled in a child, they generally do not excel. As long as we have hordes of illegal peasants entering this country whose only aspirations are to procreate like rabbits, and to leech off of taxpayers, this will continue to be the outcome.
It's not genetic as far as people having a "Mexican gene" or "white chromosome" or "Asian gene".

There is some evidence that intelligence is partially genetic - two parents of an IQ of 85 are more likely to produce children of lower intelligence than two parents with an IQ of 140 but also the cultural influences in the homes will be affected by the intelligence of the parents.

I think one problem in Mexico is that it's educated class tends to be middle class and like all middle class people who provide financial support to their children, they tend not to have children very very young or one right after the other. The impoverished people with no education and often little intelligence (but not always) tend to have many many children that they cannot feed or support.

Plus there is evidence that the quality of DNA actually improves with a higher living standard so in some ways the smart get smarter -- a higher level of education and living standard usually provides for better nutrition, better protein in the diet, and a better pool of amino acids for DNA formation -- but also the eggs of a woman are formed when she is inside her own mother so it can take a few generations of better nutrition for the effect to be realized. Drugs can destroy the effect of better nutrition available.

I think we have to be careful with immigration policies that make it difficult for the educated and highly skilled but encourage extreme numbers of unskilled but highly fertile types coming.
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Old 11-01-2009, 02:02 PM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,699,632 times
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It still comes down to the fact that Mexico is a very wealthy nation, and it has a growing middle class. The middle class tends to value an education so they keep their kids in school, the middle class doesn't tend to start popping out the babies at age 12, 13, 14, they tend to marry and delay childbirth until they can support a family and they tend to limit family size to what they can afford.

The reason most illegals come is that they have no way to feed their children, they had their children at a very young age, and have little use for school. The problem is -- in order to live a self-reliant middle class lifestyle in the USA, it takes the same attitudes as it does in Mexico -- but we have a generous welfare system that encourages irresponsibility so many are coming here having babies right and left that they can never afford, especially with our much higher cost of living.
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Old 11-01-2009, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
It's not genetic as far as people having a "Mexican gene" or "white chromosome" or "Asian gene".

There is some evidence that intelligence is partially genetic - two parents of an IQ of 85 are more likely to produce children of lower intelligence than two parents with an IQ of 140 but also the cultural influences in the homes will be affected by the intelligence of the parents.

I think one problem in Mexico is that it's educated class tends to be middle class and like all middle class people who provide financial support to their children, they tend not to have children very very young or one right after the other. The impoverished people with no education and often little intelligence (but not always) tend to have many many children that they cannot feed or support.

Plus there is evidence that the quality of DNA actually improves with a higher living standard so in some ways the smart get smarter -- a higher level of education and living standard usually provides for better nutrition, better protein in the diet, and a better pool of amino acids for DNA formation -- but also the eggs of a woman are formed when she is inside her own mother so it can take a few generations of better nutrition for the effect to be realized. Drugs can destroy the effect of better nutrition available.

I think we have to be careful with immigration policies that make it difficult for the educated and highly skilled but encourage extreme numbers of unskilled but highly fertile types coming.
Quite plausible in both scenarios you outlined. In fact: some years ago; IQ test norms had to be adjusted upward to compensate for the greater average intelligence of people as a group due to the reasons you listed.
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Old 11-01-2009, 03:26 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,034,103 times
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There is an article in the Union Tribune today stating San Diego spends 45 million on the children of Ilegals that moved back or were deported to TJ yet their kids cross to go to school every day using stolen or borrowed docs from relatives that still live here. Some manage to still suck off the US taxpayer teat even after these Mexicans have been repatriated.
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Old 11-01-2009, 03:46 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Exactly, Heather Macdonalds has her own agenda.
Who doesn't? Compared to many of your 'hispanic' spokespersons, she is the voice of calm and reason. Or at least the voice of calm. She does not start spitting all over the place like Luis Gutierrez when some non-hispanic person disagrees with her.

Quote:
Trouble is, she comes loaded for bear.
We need more like her.

Know Your Enemy: Heather Mac Donald | Mother Jones

Mother Jones? Good Lord.
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Old 11-01-2009, 04:20 PM
 
Location: SXSW
640 posts, read 1,514,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
It's not genetic as far as people having a "Mexican gene" or "white chromosome" or "Asian gene".

There is some evidence that intelligence is partially genetic - two parents of an IQ of 85 are more likely to produce children of lower intelligence than two parents with an IQ of 140 but also the cultural influences in the homes will be affected by the intelligence of the parents.

I think one problem in Mexico is that it's educated class tends to be middle class and like all middle class people who provide financial support to their children, they tend not to have children very very young or one right after the other. The impoverished people with no education and often little intelligence (but not always) tend to have many many children that they cannot feed or support.

Plus there is evidence that the quality of DNA actually improves with a higher living standard so in some ways the smart get smarter -- a higher level of education and living standard usually provides for better nutrition, better protein in the diet, and a better pool of amino acids for DNA formation -- but also the eggs of a woman are formed when she is inside her own mother so it can take a few generations of better nutrition for the effect to be realized. Drugs can destroy the effect of better nutrition available.

I think we have to be careful with immigration policies that make it difficult for the educated and highly skilled but encourage extreme numbers of unskilled but highly fertile types coming.
The capacity to be smart matters but I think culture matters most. A stupid person who works hard is far better than a lazy intelligent person, IMHO but I'm no clinical psychologist. IMHO, culture matters immensely. Mass cooperation and understanding of what is good for society and detrimental to society matters. And those types of societal objectives are universal. Criminality = bad. Single motherhood = bad. Education = good. Cooperation = good. You can find these values in any country around the world. As you stated, middle class Mexican people don't have kids at a young age and value education. Just like middle class people here. Those types of objectives are only tough for people with lower class values.
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Old 11-01-2009, 05:05 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blueseas123 View Post
The capacity to be smart matters but I think culture matters most. A stupid person who works hard is far better than a lazy intelligent person, IMHO but I'm no clinical psychologist. IMHO, culture matters immensely. Mass cooperation and understanding of what is good for society and detrimental to society matters. And those types of societal objectives are universal. Criminality = bad. Single motherhood = bad. Education = good. Cooperation = good. You can find these values in any country around the world. As you stated, middle class Mexican people don't have kids at a young age and value education. Just like middle class people here. Those types of objectives are only tough for people with lower class values.
Absolutely. Race, skin color, and ethnicity have little to do with a successful life in a high-tech, First World society...what matters is attitude, one's approach to life, one's 'mentoring', and how one spends his formative years. Regardless of 'color', the general rule is that being "cool"..or being "macho"...or viewing books and ideas as "sissy stuff"...and viewing hard work, study, and delayed gratification as "silly"...are values that shut one out from being able to achieve the 'good life'.

Draw any inferences you wish, this basic 'formula' for success holds true across all ethnicities. First World success requires 'middle class' values....and middle class values aren't "cool"....The choice is up to the individual...who, to a large extent, is the 'product' of his upbringing. Macho, misogynistic, backward, anti-intellectual attitudes, in a modern society, are a strong indication that those so inclined will experience, at best, a very marginal existence. That truth may be accepted, or ignored...it's an individual choice.
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