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Old 11-01-2009, 06:04 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,792,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
Who doesn't? Compared to many of your 'hispanic' spokespersons, she is the voice of calm and reason. Or at least the voice of calm. She does not start spitting all over the place like Luis Gutierrez when some non-hispanic person disagrees with her.



We need more like her.

Know Your Enemy: Heather Mac Donald | Mother Jones

Mother Jones? Good Lord.
More like the voice of paranoia and lies. You can read that article by Linda Chavez on national review online and you will know exactly what i'm talking about.

PS- Hope the national review online is not too liberal for you.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...zFhYmY3ZjFlNTc=
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Old 11-01-2009, 09:19 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,711,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
More like the voice of paranoia and lies. You can read that article by Linda Chavez on national review online and you will know exactly what i'm talking about.

PS- Hope the national review online is not too liberal for you.

The Company You Keep by Linda Chavez on National Review Online=
Not at all. I read everything. At times this gets me into trouble. Like today, which I have spent reading a book that I can't seem to put down instead of raking the leaves in the yard.
I'll get to the NRO article in the morning.
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Old 11-01-2009, 10:50 PM
 
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Who exactly creates culture? Is it something that is inherited simply as a result of where one lives, due to climate, resources, etc., or is it the people of a nation who create their culture?
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Old 11-02-2009, 12:13 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,617,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Read Culture of Critique View Post
Who exactly creates culture? Is it something that is inherited simply as a result of where one lives, due to climate, resources, etc., or is it the people of a nation who create their culture?
An EXTREMELY interesting question....worthy of an entire thread of its own. One would suspect that culture is the sum total of MANY factors..including climate and geography, to an extent...but far more important is values, ethics, and one's view of the world as a whole. Whether a society is forward-looking, or idolizes the past....whether "others" are seen as largely friends, or enemies; whether authority is imposed by people upon themselves by common consent, or from "above"; whether man is seen as an individual, or as simply a faceless part of 'the system'; whether violence is seen as the mark of 'manhood', or only as a last resort; whether the emphasis is on the 'team player', or the 'rugged individualist'.....and even down to personal values...whether honesty is important or not; the relationship between men and women, parents and children, neighbor and neighbor, and the relative importance of "tribe" as opposed to the larger society.

One definition which has always made sense to me is that a 'First World' society (such as we have in the USA) requires that a person learn to internalize the concept of being able to "trust in strangers"..that is, that to live in the First World, we must view our fellow citizens not in terms of their religion or race or ethnicity..(or "tribe")...but as 'fellow members' of our common society. It's a difficult concept for most of the world...hasn't COMPLETELY caught on here, either...but that's what we must do, if we're to get along. "Culture", in that respect, would be a voluntary, mutually agreed-upon thing.
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Old 11-02-2009, 01:29 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,072,228 times
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so it would be what most smart, rational people think : SOCIO ECONOMICS...

not genetics or nationality like some ignorant folk think.

i would go further and say that not fully understaning the english language can also affect kids learning.

if the parents speak limited english, the child will have limited english, and well tests in the US are in english. it makes sense.

i dont think its so much being mexican. that presupposes that mexico is absent of intelligence. that is not the case.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Frankly; using other minorities as a guide (of any actual race/ethnicity)...........what may be hurting Mexicans may be because we tend to get the bottom feeders here illegally from Mexico who would be failures back home for a multitude of cultural reasons. Their closest analogs would be ghetto Blacks and PW Trash White people---------none of which have a real desire for self improvement i.e. belief in education, sobriety, frugality, Rule of Law, etc.
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Old 11-02-2009, 01:33 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,072,228 times
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wrong wrong wrong!

the longer the people are here, the more assimilated they are. studies prove that. this has been discussed ten times over on this board.

spanish language is almost lost by the 2nd generation.

and i love how everyone uses mestizo now. im going to pepper my posts with negro, and octoroon, even mulatto!


Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackShoe View Post
Very true,and well stated.This attitude still exists in third,fourth,and even longer farther back generations.It is not just a recent illegal alien thing.A few years ago the Orange County Register did a series on the problems of education among children of Latino backgrounds.Very high dropout rates,rampant crime,and soaring birth rates to unmarried young women seem to be the norm in Spanish speaking Mestizo communities.There are,of course,many notable exceptions,with many going on to higher educations and successful lives.Oddly,it is the Latinas rather than the boys that are doing best in getting an eduacation.Rather puzzling,since Mexican culture tends to be male dominated.Until and unless this attitude of downplaying education and accepting criminal behavior changes,this trend of "dumbing down" will continue.Realistically,the flood of recent illegals have brought these old world attitudes with them,and things are not going to change.
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Old 11-02-2009, 01:49 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,072,228 times
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i think you all have the immigrant ethic all mixed up.

most, and maybe im dating myself, but most of the ones that came in the70's, 80's and 90's taught their kids that education was the only way "not to end up like me". i think its still the same way.

im using LA as a reference. the people i knew, who were immigrants (possibly or most like illegal), always stressed education and hard work.

the formula was such : parents move to a different country for opportunities. they suffer doing laborious work, but the kids reap the benefits... and the parents constantly remind them of what sacrifices are being made on their behalf.

i know tons of children(now adults) from immigrant families. very few were caught up as thugs (those were mostly the ones who had grown up with thug parents/grand parents[gang banging in LA is def a generational thing, but not always]). most went to school, played football (futbol wasnt as big in schools back then), were cheerleaders, etc etc., went to trade school, or a JC or a 4 year.

thats what i have seen.

maybe its different now, but when i look at the parents of my kids classmates i still see hard working people pushing their kids to excel.

thats the immigrant ethic.

to me it becomes more about urban pitfalls. there is a big threat where i live (south C LA). it comes in the form of drugs, gangs, sex, crime, etc etc. it is sometimes hard keeping our kids away from that stuff. and kids follow those paths for myriad reasons.

its very hard to know. its like wondering why more than 15 girls in MA got pregnant at that one highschool last summer...
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Old 11-02-2009, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
It's not genetic as far as people having a "Mexican gene" or "white chromosome" or "Asian gene".

There is some evidence that intelligence is partially genetic - two parents of an IQ of 85 are more likely to produce children of lower intelligence than two parents with an IQ of 140 but also the cultural influences in the homes will be affected by the intelligence of the parents.

I think one problem in Mexico is that it's educated class tends to be middle class and like all middle class people who provide financial support to their children, they tend not to have children very very young or one right after the other. The impoverished people with no education and often little intelligence (but not always) tend to have many many children that they cannot feed or support.

Plus there is evidence that the quality of DNA actually improves with a higher living standard so in some ways the smart get smarter -- a higher level of education and living standard usually provides for better nutrition, better protein in the diet, and a better pool of amino acids for DNA formation -- but also the eggs of a woman are formed when she is inside her own mother so it can take a few generations of better nutrition for the effect to be realized. Drugs can destroy the effect of better nutrition available.

I think we have to be careful with immigration policies that make it difficult for the educated and highly skilled but encourage extreme numbers of unskilled but highly fertile types coming.
Spot-on! Absolutely, IQ has a genetic basis. Rarely will an intelligent couple from any race/ethnicity produce a child with a low IQ. However, I believe many illegal alien children have the IQ to excel, but will never succeed due to poor parenting and an environment that is not conducive to high achievement.

I am reminded of psychological studies conducted on children of average intelligence who were placed in facilities after being abandoned by their parents. Sadly, due to overcrowding and staff shortages, they received little or no nurturing. Invariably, these children were later considered intellectually challenged.
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:18 PM
 
2,243 posts, read 3,449,574 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
However, I believe many illegal alien children have the IQ to excel, but will never succeed due to poor parenting and an environment that is not conducive to high achievement.
Why do certain cultures not promote an environment conducive to high achievement? Mexico constantly laments over how poor it is relative to the U.S., so why has Mexico simply not changed its environment so that it's more conducive to high achievement, and therefore allow Mexico to match the U.S. and Canada in living standards?
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Old 11-02-2009, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,887,954 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
so it would be what most smart, rational people think : SOCIO ECONOMICS...

not genetics or nationality like some ignorant folk think.

i would go further and say that not fully understaning the english language can also affect kids learning.

if the parents speak limited english, the child will have limited english, and well tests in the US are in english. it makes sense.

i dont think its so much being mexican. that presupposes that mexico is absent of intelligence. that is not the case.
Which only proves that illegals do in fact lower our average National IQ. Which further proves that illegals are in fact a burden.
Race is not the factor. Low income low educated illegals regardless of nation of origin are the problem. This also enforces why we need to set high standards for who we allow to immigrate into our country.
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