U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-12-2009, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,827,658 times
Reputation: 3028

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Okay so you don't really understand the analogy. It's not a literal salad, it doesn't wilt. Also Balkanization occurred under the guise of trying to uniformly have ethnic Serbs as the top dogs (thus, Serbian culture as the main culture). Balkanization occurs when one group doesn't allow minority expression, not when there are many minorities. Remember too that the Balkan region underwent HUGE political reforms for most of it's history. So not a great comparison.

The Tower of Babel is a mythical story. Doesn't hold water.

That argument is moot since the salad itself is the common culture...all pieces forming the whole.

Again, the biggest common factor in America is the ability to shop. That is what most of our holidays glorify, that's what many of our cultural milestones glorify, and that is what our economy is highly dependent on...consumption.
Hellooooo. Is anybody home? I know it isn’t a literal salad. Nor is it a literal mixing bowl.

I am certainly not going to engage in a debate over the existence or nonexistence of God. You are entitled to your beliefs.

Your argument does not hold water. When diverse cultures have no common thread, unity is impossible. We have had a nation comprised of various ethnic groups. However, we have shared a common language. Whereas now, there is a concerted effort to balkanize this country. We have millions of illegal foreigners who have no desire to learn English or assimilate to our American culture. Your denial does not alter this fact.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-12-2009, 01:10 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,082,947 times
Reputation: 822
Hellooooo. Is anybody home? I know it isn’t a literal salad. Nor is it a literal mixing bowl.

"Wilting" This was the clue that led to you not understanding the analogy. The result is a juxtaposition of cultures that combine to form the whole. You have learned about various models of cultural assimilation correct? You do know how relates to Durkheim's views of society? More than the sum of its parts. We need not debate sociological models of society.

I am certainly not going to engage in a debate over the existence or nonexistence of God. You are entitled to your beliefs.

Just saying the analogy is false, the tower Babel is not a true story. This is regardless of whether there is a God or not.

Your argument does not hold water. When diverse cultures have no common thread, unity is impossible. We have had a nation comprised of various ethnic groups. However, we have shared a common language. Whereas now, there is a concerted effort to balkanize this country. We have millions of illegal foreigners who have no desire to learn English or assimilate to our American culture. Your denial does not alter this fact.

I think that 400 years of exsistence from colonial status to current world super power proves my argument pretty well. There is such thing as cultrual adaptation. We simply do not assimilate to one homogenous culture that is uniquely American. The VAST majority of people (legal and illegal) do speak English. Again this is noted by successive generations speaking English at higher rates. However, there is a trend of being bilingual. Which is a good thing. Again, the salad bowl model, the sum of the parts...functionalism...
"Whereas now, there is a concerted effort to balkanize this country" Conspiracy theory much? My denial? More like your paranoia...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2009, 01:40 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,161,367 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I see your confusion...and I share it. Apparently, the US is one of the most diverse nations on earth...but it's not diverse ENOUGH, and so we must strive for MORE diversity. We're mean, unkind, and unwelcoming to foreigners, though we're really 'all immigrants' ourselves...and we're mostly unsophisticated, monolingual, provincial xenophobes, but we're expected to 'adapt' to a constant stream of culturally-diverse 'newcomers', because that's always been our tradition...welcoming newcomers. We don't know much..nor do we care much...about other cultures, but we're really a multicultual society...and even though people in various parts of the world may regard each other with fear and mistrust and even mutual hatred, when they arrive HERE, they'll all be able to "get along" with each other...and with US...because we have a welcoming, inclusive society....racist, unfriendly, and xenophobic though we may be, we're really 'good guys' underneath..and though we include every culture on earth, we're not supposed to "act" like other countries, because we're "not LIKE that....we're different here"....(even though we're REALLY all the same).

I THINK that's how it goes, if I understand correctly what I'm reading. Hope this clears things up....
Yes, you do understand and you pretty much nailed it (I am finally getting use to your sarcasm, lol). Those who would rather we weren't a white majority nation along with the white European culture that we adopted as our basic one long ago continue to deny we even have a basic culture. They would rather think of us as a multi-cultural salad bowl without a basic identity. Well the facts are the facts. We do have a basic, identifying culture along with English being our national language. If they don't like it, tough. Denial doesn't change it. The ones in denial are usually the same ones who want our culture to change through illegal immigraton and high birthrates from one ethnic group. Of course if our basic culture changes to theirs instead they will have no problem claiming that we are another Hispanic nation in identity. It will be the end of their so-called claims that we are multi-cultural in identity.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2009, 01:44 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,082,947 times
Reputation: 822
Where did you go to school at Chi-nut? Did you go to school? I'm wondering how you learned about sociology and anthropology... Also applies to
macmeal. If you went, what models are your favorite? Learn much about history? If so, what was your focus?

I focused urban sociology (relations in the urban environment), I focused mostly the colonial era, however with a deep interest on the post modern era and how the two are related. This was on top of biopsychology as well.

It just seems that most people I've talk to with little knowledge or experience, typically share your views.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-12-2009, 10:16 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
60,561 posts, read 30,739,374 times
Reputation: 12904
It's those new history books, you know.
Where everything has changed or silenced, since we learned history.
Remember the Alamo... Then there was the Battle on the San Jacinto!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2009, 10:25 AM
 
Location: phoenix az
124 posts, read 213,957 times
Reputation: 44
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
A group migrating to another country with a tribal mentality isn't good for the country they are migrating to. That doesn't mean that their culture is no good in general. It is part of their belief system that belongs in the homeland where they are the majority in rather than migrating to a different country because that means they will likely not assimilate to their new country. Ethocentricism will trump any nationalistic views that should be acquired. It is in direct contrast to "out of many, one".
the peaceful migration of a group of people was what destroyed Rome .
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2009, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Edgewater, Florida
883 posts, read 449,832 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
No one without citizenship papers is an American aka a U.S. citizen. You've got to be kidding!
So it is irrelevant whether we refer to immigrants as either legal or illegal?

Not according to our immigration laws. No, most of us are not immigrants. Most of us are native born Americans and therefore we are not immigrants.

It is rrevelant because there are many legal immigrants in this Country that are NOW American Citizens but because they come from another Country people still refer to them as immigrants.


"America was built by Immigrants"
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2009, 04:08 PM
 
Location: Edgewater, Florida
883 posts, read 449,832 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
i see your confusion...and i share it. Apparently, the us is one of the most diverse nations on earth...but it's not diverse enough, and so we must strive for more diversity. We're mean, unkind, and unwelcoming to foreigners, though we're really 'all immigrants' ourselves...and we're mostly unsophisticated, monolingual, provincial xenophobes, but we're expected to 'adapt' to a constant stream of culturally-diverse 'newcomers', because that's always been our tradition...welcoming newcomers. We don't know much..nor do we care much...about other cultures, but we're really a multicultual society...and even though people in various parts of the world may regard each other with fear and mistrust and even mutual hatred, when they arrive here, they'll all be able to "get along" with each other...and with us...because we have a welcoming, inclusive society....racist, unfriendly, and xenophobic though we may be, we're really 'good guys' underneath..and though we include every culture on earth, we're not supposed to "act" like other countries, because we're "not like that....we're different here"....(even though we're really all the same).

I think that's how it goes, if i understand correctly what i'm reading.

Hope this clears things up....
excellent
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2009, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,654,941 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by DulceJ View Post
It is rrevelant because there are many legal immigrants in this Country that are NOW American Citizens but because they come from another Country people still refer to them as immigrants.


"America was built by Immigrants"
As was Mexico yet we are still a mostly affluent First World society with the Rule of Law whereas Mexico is imploding due in large part to the drug wars/corruption there.

I am definitely not an immigrant since I was born/raised here in the USA.

Needless to say: if here illegally------------leave or else (within the law).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-19-2009, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Edgewater, Florida
883 posts, read 449,832 times
Reputation: 909
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
As was Mexico yet we are still a mostly affluent First World society with the Rule of Law whereas Mexico is imploding due in large part to the drug wars/corruption there.

I am definitely not an immigrant since I was born/raised here in the USA.

Needless to say: if here illegally------------leave or else (within the law).

I am against Illegals but I am not against Immigrants that are legal.

So are you a pure American, no one in your background was ever an immigrant in both maternal or paternal side everyone in your family was born in the USA?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top