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Old 11-11-2009, 10:12 AM
 
Location: phoenix az
124 posts, read 213,675 times
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thanks And i thought nobody would agree
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:14 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
You don't know the definition of equality, clearly, as exhibited in the post. If I were a company, for example, I would hire the most qualified...regardless of race. To be perfectly honest I am oppossed to racial quotas, because it is AGAINST equality. I am not opossed to helping those, irrespective of race or ethnicity, who are disadvantaged (economically or socially as the case may be).
No, YOU don't know the meaning of equality. Look it up in the dictionary. This has nothing to do with hiring practices of employers but fair immigration policies when the case is that the potential immigrants of all ethnic groups all have the same skills needed by our country and have waited an equal amount of time to come here.

Example:

1 million hispanics

1 million chinese

1 million irish....all immigrants waiting to come here.

We "hypothetically" need 1 million low skilled laborers for various low paying jobs. All these immigrants are equally qualifed to fill these jobs and have waited an equal amount of time to come here. Do we pick more hispanics than the chinese? No, in an equal and fair immigration policy we would allow in an equal number from each group to fill those jobs. The same equal policy should be applied to those who are here illegally already if an amnesty were to occur.

This also keeps the diversity concept alive, discourages colonization and encourages assimilation.
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Old 11-11-2009, 02:42 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,617,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post

This also keeps the diversity concept alive, discourages colonization and encourages assimilation.
If you want to keep the diversity concept alive, why would you want to encourage assimilation? Make up your mind...
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:11 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
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Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
If you want to keep the diversity concept alive, why would you want to encourage assimilation? Make up your mind...
I didn't say it was my personal desire but it is what our country encourages along with assimilation. We are all diverse in a sense but we are all a part of the melting pot of which assimilation becomes the desired result. I mainly mentioned diversity though because it is what the pro-illegals preach in defending illegal aliens in our county but do we really become diverse if it is mostly one ethnic group coming here by the milions? I don't think so and the pro-illegals know that as well. Diversity is just one of their lame and hypocritical excuses they try to justify illegal immigation with. As you have probably read, the pro-illegal I am bantering back and forth with thinks fair ethnic quotas doesn't equate to equality but inequality. How lame is that?
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Old 11-11-2009, 03:20 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,617,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I didn't say it was my personal desire but it is what our country encourages along with assimilation. We are all diverse in a sense but we are all a part of the melting pot of which assimilation becomes the desired result. I mainly mentioned diversity though because it is what the pro-illegals preach in defending illegal aliens in our county but do we really become diverse if it is mostly one ethnic group coming here by the milions? I don't think so and the pro-illegals know that as well. Diversity is just one of their lame and hypocritical excuses they try to justify illegal immigation with. As you have probably read, the pro-illegal I am bantering back and forth with thinks fair ethnic quotas doesn't equate to equality but inequality. How lame is that?
Pretty lame...but I still say 'our country' (whoever THAT is) cannot encourage diversity, and at the same time, encourage assimilation. Either one would have to be 'promoted', and the other 'downplayed'....or vice-versa. OR (more likely) the DEFINITIONS of 'assimilation'...and of 'diversity'..would have to be re-written. As you get more 'assimilated', you get less diverse..; while the more 'diverse' you are, the less assimilated. That's simply a 'fact'....inconvenient though it may sound.
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:37 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
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Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Pretty lame...but I still say 'our country' (whoever THAT is) cannot encourage diversity, and at the same time, encourage assimilation. Either one would have to be 'promoted', and the other 'downplayed'....or vice-versa. OR (more likely) the DEFINITIONS of 'assimilation'...and of 'diversity'..would have to be re-written. As you get more 'assimilated', you get less diverse..; while the more 'diverse' you are, the less assimilated. That's simply a 'fact'....inconvenient though it may sound.
Assimilating doesn't mean one has to completely give up their native cultural practices or language though. Assimilating means blending in with the majority out in mainstream America rather than standing out. It means learning and using our language as a primary means of communication. I don't want to go on and on about what American culture is comprised of but one can still remain diverse in their own homes by retaining their native cultures and languages there.
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Old 11-11-2009, 04:40 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,078,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
I didn't say it was my personal desire but it is what our country encourages along with assimilation. We are all diverse in a sense but we are all a part of the melting pot of which assimilation becomes the desired result. I mainly mentioned diversity though because it is what the pro-illegals preach in defending illegal aliens in our county but do we really become diverse if it is mostly one ethnic group coming here by the milions? I don't think so and the pro-illegals know that as well. Diversity is just one of their lame and hypocritical excuses they try to justify illegal immigation with. As you have probably read, the pro-illegal I am bantering back and forth with thinks fair ethnic quotas doesn't equate to equality but inequality. How lame is that?
Fair quotas...that's an oxymoron. So no it's not fair.
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Old 11-11-2009, 06:20 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,617,384 times
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Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Assimilating doesn't mean one has to completely give up their native cultural practices or language though. Assimilating means blending in with the majority out in mainstream America rather than standing out. It means learning and using our language as a primary means of communication. I don't want to go on and on about what American culture is comprised of but one can still remain diverse in their own homes by retaining their native cultures and languages there.
So what you're advocating, (if I read you correctly), is that we encourage the "cute", interesting, "nice", and "colorful" diversity....while discouraging the violent, hateful, primitive, and "xenophobic" diversity.

I have no problem with that, at all...that's the same way I feel. But 'diversity' is still 'diversity'....and if you encourage the 'good', while disallowing the 'bad', you're still making judgements. Nothing wrong with making judgements...as long as we all understand where we're going with this...and as long as we remember that "good" and "bad" are partially determined by one's outlook and culture....(one man's 'bad' may occasionally be another man's 'good')...

As long as we agree on that, I have no problem at all with diversity.
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Old 11-11-2009, 06:38 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
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Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
So what you're advocating, (if I read you correctly), is that we encourage the "cute", interesting, "nice", and "colorful" diversity....while discouraging the violent, hateful, primitive, and "xenophobic" diversity.

I have no problem with that, at all...that's the same way I feel. But 'diversity' is still 'diversity'....and if you encourage the 'good', while disallowing the 'bad', you're still making judgements. Nothing wrong with making judgements...as long as we all understand where we're going with this...and as long as we remember that "good" and "bad" are partially determined by one's outlook and culture....(one man's 'bad' may occasionally be another man's 'good')...

As long as we agree on that, I have no problem at all with diversity.
Uh, I never said any of the things you stated in your first paragraph nor did I imply it. Please go back and read what I actually said. I never said anything about some cultures being good or bad either.

I have no problem with diverse/ethic groups migrating to our country just as long as they become Americans first and foremost and that we don't import too many from one ethnic group at one time because they tend to colonize rather than assimilate. As I said, there is nothing wrong with retaining one's native cultures and languages at home. I have no problem with ethnic business neighborhoods either. There are some cultures that are very tribal in mentality. I think this causes division in a country. I believe in the saying "out of many, one" for a cohesive society.
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Old 11-11-2009, 06:46 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,617,384 times
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Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Uh, I never said any of the things you stated in your first paragraph nor did I imply it. Please go back and read what I actually said. I never said anything about some cultures being good or bad either.

I have no problem with diverse/ethic groups migrating to our country just as long as they become Americans first and foremost and that we don't import too many from one ethnic group at one time because they tend to colonize rather than assimilate. As I said, there is nothing wrong with retaining one's native cultures and languages at home. I have no problem with ethnic business neighborhoods either. There are some cultures that are very tribal in mentality. I think this causes division in a country. I believe in the saying "out of many, one" for a cohesive society.

Thanks for your explanation.....

IF, as you say, "some cultures are very tribal in mentality"....and if, as you say, "this causes a division in a country".... does that then mean this is a GOOD thing, or a BAD thing, in terms of coming here? Is a "little division" OK, as long as it doesn't develop into a LOT of division? Can we tolerate a "little xenophobia"? How about a "moderate" amount of misogyny? Not trying to trip you up here...just asking.

Don't mean to 'grill' you personally...just trying to clarify a few points. Thanks for letting me pose these questions.
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