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bigtallredhead
Only 57% of illegal immigrants are from Mexico. (source PEW Hispanic center). The majority of "Mexicans" in the U.S. were born here. Many of their families go back to the 1910-1929 period after the second Mexican revolution up until the great depression, when an estimated more than 2 million settled permanently in the U.S. and their average fertility was more than 7 children per child, now more like three. (During the great depression many U.S. CITIZENS of Mexican decent were deported, along with immigrants, because of race alone -before 1965 there were NO numerical limitations on immigrants to the U.S. from the western hemisphere!!).
Mexico has 107 million people. With 20 million illegals and 57% of them from Mexico, that would mean 11.4 million are in the U.S. illegally. In 2006 there were about 42 million "Hispanics", in the U.S, -about 57% of whom(23,940,000) were "Mexican" (see above). I am sure you would mention "anchor babies", but these children are not at fault. They are victims in this whole affair.
I also do not believe the 20 million number. These high estimates do not take into acount the fact that Evan now, most migrants from Mexico ARE NOT entering for the first time, -most go back periodically for visits, and than cross back in to the U.S. -illegally. This still accounts for most of the crossings, not new entrants. (pew Mexican migration survey).
I see that you did not bother answering this question...figures.
Quote:
I also guess 43,000 + American citizens killed by illegal immigrants since 9/11(I have the data to back that number up if you would like to see it) is a low number as well.
I do count the anchor babies and I would like to see the source for your information because it is WAY off.
Only 57% of illegal immigrants are from Mexico. (source PEW Hispanic center). The majority of "Mexicans" in the U.S. were born here. Many of their families go back to the 1910-1929 period after the second Mexican revolution up until the great depression, when an estimated more than 2 million settled permanently in the U.S. and their average fertility was more than 7 children per child, now more like three. (During the great depression many U.S. CITIZENS of Mexican decent were deported, along with immigrants, because of race alone -before 1965 there were NO numerical limitations on immigrants to the U.S. from the western hemisphere!!).
Mexico has 107 million people. With 20 million illegals and 57% of them from Mexico, that would mean 11.4 million are in the U.S. illegally. In 2006 there were about 42 million "Hispanics", in the U.S, -about 57% of whom(23,940,000) were "Mexican" (see above). I am sure you would mention "anchor babies", but these children are not at fault. They are victims in this whole affair.
I also do not believe the 20 million number. These high estimates do not take into acount the fact that Evan now, most migrants from Mexico ARE NOT entering for the first time, -most go back periodically for visits, and than cross back in to the U.S. -illegally. This still accounts for most of the crossings, not new entrants. (pew Mexican migration survey).
Even if your statistics meant something, which they do not, the fact is that all of the illegal aliens in this country need to go home and stop taking jobs from American citizens and legal residents and loading down our public infrastructure. I don't care how many came here or left during the great depression, the percentage of illegal Mexicans versus the number of illegal aliens, or any of that - they just need to go home, all of them whether they are from Canada, China, or Mexico I could care less.
To Chloedog. I gave one source already. There is also the U.S. census and many historical accounts.
You didn't ask me about crime by illegals if I recall. Sure some commit serious crime, I already know that. But most of them do not, and a lot of other people do. Just start deporting (and prosecuting!!) the criminals instead of releasing them. I will go for that.
But I do not find that figure you gave about those killed by illegals to be very trustworthy becuase there are so many bogus statistics floating around from people like you. -I think most of these figures given by Nativist extremists are WAY OFF!!!-That figure could be true, but I have seen no evidence for it. And frankly, I doubt it. -Of course it might depend on how you define "cause" death in this case, and just who you actually mean when you say "illegal". I am finding that people with your aproch have some VERY twisted definitions.
You know it's sad, I would like the border controlled myself and employers held accountable.
- I do see a major economic, as well as environmental and security threats, from both illegal AND to much LEGAL immigration to this country. I am finding, however, that the "nativist" movement in the U.S. is really full of hatred and bigotry. I think People like this are way to concerned about the racial/ethnic composition of this country, and not enough on it's actual quality of life. And I think they need to start looking more at the bigger context (NAFTA, CAFTA, government corruption, NeoLiberal economic policy in general etc..), and try to work on that more.
Yes do control the borders and hold employers accountable. It is fine to be an activist on this issue, And most of what a group like the minutemen are doing is good, but some of it is just mean and ugly. Some people just go way to far on this. Try not to hate others so much. Remember, hatred begets hatred and two wrongs do not make a right. peace.
-We need to control immigration so we don't have to many many people and to protect our economy/ job opportunities, NOT becuase Mexicans are terrible people, -they are individuals, good and bad, just like we are. Yes their culture is different from ours, but at least most of them are Christians. The corruption of the government in Mexico is not the fault of the mass of Mexican people.
I don't think Los Angeles or El Paso are "cesspools" either. But it's tough to get a job there, the air is bad, and (in LA) the costs are too high. In LA there is also a lack of trust. Yes this dose have a lot to do with immigration, and high diversity as a whole. But quite frankly I think it has more to do with the fact that there is just far too many people in LA, period. It would still be a problem (though not as bad) Evan if most people in LA were still white.
-El Paso is a rather friendly (but poor) city going through hard times these days with the loss of much of it's manufacturing base, no thanks to NAFTA. And there is plenty of English spoken there. Most people In El Paso are bilingual.
-Some neighborhoods are dangerous and hostile. (yes sometimes to anyone who is not Latino, but the same thing goes for other groups, too.) I have found most immigrant neighborhoods to NOT be like this, however. Despite all of the gangs in LA, and the huge low income population, overall serious crime In LA (per ca-pita) is close to the national average. Most of the most dangerous cities in the U.S. have few immigrants.(see F.B.I. uniform crime report) There are always exceptions.
And El Paso is one of the Safest big cities in the country.
I am well aware that there are those who hate the U.S. (or just hate working class whites, -which are my own people BTW.). But I DO NOT for one moment think they are dominant among Mexicans as a whole. Nor Evan illegals in general. They lack respect for sovereignty, yes, and we need to do something about that. But most do not hate us at all, -they have a whole different WAY of thinking about nation states (at least within the Americas), that is in conflict with ours. But if we show enough hatred toward them, you count on them returning the favor, -some already are. -do you really want more of that??
I hope something is done about this situation before it gets out of hand. -It is the extremists/bigots on BOTH sides of this issue that really scare me.
Last edited by bigtallredhead; 05-15-2007 at 01:26 PM..
To Synopsis. We disagree about a lot. But at least the issue to you is illegal immigration as such, not Mexicans per say. But most Nativists will say it's not about race or ethnicity, and only the rule of law. But what they speak and do say otherwise. Immigration law itself, and "Nationalism" are largely about culture and race. I wish they weren't, they don't half to be in theory, but in reality they are.
We need laws to protect us. We DO NOT need to hate others. In fact the more hate we show our "enemies", the MORE at risk we become to outside attack. Hatred begets hatred. A quit simple concept, really.
BTW. before 1965, there were no numerical limits on immigration to the U.S. from the western hemisphere. And Most Mexican immigrants were legal. -There were always those who just walked across the border illegally, too, but they were generally single men here on only a short term basis.
To Chloedog. I gave one source already. There is also the U.S. census and many historical accounts.
You didn't ask me about crime by illegals if I recall. Sure some commit serious crime, I already know that. But most of them do not, and a lot of other people do. Just start deporting (and prosecuting!!) the criminals instead of releasing them. I will go for that.
But I do not find that figure you gave about those killed by illegals to be very trustworthy becuase there are so many bogus statistics floating around from people like you. -I think most of these figures given by Nativist extremists are WAY OFF!!!-That figure could be true, but I have seen no evidence for it. And frankly, I doubt it. -Of course it might depend on how you define "cause" death in this case, and just who you actually mean when you say "illegal". I am finding that people with your aproch have some VERY twisted definitions.
You know it's sad, I would like the border controlled myself and employers held accountable.
- I do see a major economic, as well as environmental and security threats, from both illegal AND to much LEGAL immigration to this country. I am finding, however, that the "nativist" movement in the U.S. is really full of hatred and bigotry. I think People like this are way to concerned about the racial/ethnic composition of this country, and not enough on it's actual quality of life. And I think they need to start looking more at the bigger context (NAFTA, CAFTA, government corruption, NeoLiberal economic policy in general etc..), and try to work on that more.
Yes do control the borders and hold employers accountable. It is fine to be an activist on this issue, And most of what a group like the minutemen are doing is good, but some of it is just mean and ugly. Some people just go way to far on this. Try not to hate others so much. Remember, hatred begets hatred and two wrongs do not make a right. peace.
-We need to control immigration so we don't have to many many people and to protect our economy/ job opportunities, NOT becuase Mexicans are terrible people, -they are individuals, good and bad, just like we are. Yes their culture is different from ours, but at least most of them are Christians. The corruption of the government in Mexico is not the fault of the mass of Mexican people.
I don't think Los Angeles or El Paso are "cesspools" either. But it's tough to get a job there, the air is bad, and (in LA) the costs are too high. In LA there is also a lack of trust. Yes this dose have a lot to do with immigration, and high diversity as a whole. But quite frankly I think it has more to do with the fact that there is just far too many people in LA, period. It would still be a problem (though not as bad) Evan if most people in LA were still white.
-El Paso is a rather friendly (but poor) city going through hard times these days with the loss of much of it's manufacturing base, no thanks to NAFTA. And there is plenty of English spoken there. Most people In El Paso are bilingual.
-Some neighborhoods are dangerous and hostile. (yes sometimes to anyone who is not Latino, but the same thing goes for other groups, too.) I have found most immigrant neighborhoods to NOT be like this, however. Despite all of the gangs in LA, and the huge low income population, overall serious crime In LA (per ca-pita) is close to the national average. Most of the most dangerous cities in the U.S. have few immigrants.(see F.B.I. uniform crime report) There are always exceptions.
And El Paso is one of the Safest big cities in the country.
I am well aware that there are those who hate the U.S. (or just hate working class whites, -which are my own people BTW.). But I DO NOT for one moment think they are dominant among Mexicans as a whole. Nor Evan illegals in general. They lack respect for sovereignty, yes, and we need to do something about that. But most do not hate us at all, -they have a whole different WAY of thinking about nation states (at least within the Americas), that is in conflict with ours. But if we show enough hatred toward them, you count on them returning the favor, -some already are. -do you really want more of that??
I hope something is done about this situation before it gets out of hand. -It is the extremists/bigots on BOTH sides of this issue that really scare me.
Where exactly do you get off with the name-calling without a word from the moderators. You've consistently insulted other posters and called them hateful names when you have no basis to do so. You lower the level of conversation to the gutter with your continual character attacks on people who don't agree with you.
You're very good at it, and I hope La Raza and MALDEF are paying you for your unprofessional, anti-American diatribes.
The poor in Mexico, the illegal "migrants", AND the native born working/lower middle class in the U.S. are ALL getting screwed by NAFTA, NEO liberalism, NEO "conservatism", and Corporate global fascism in general. The fat cats are just laughing as the lowly working minions of both countries become more and more riled and began to fight it out.
This is called divide and concur and it is well tested and successful strategy. Unfortunately for them, I think things are likely to get way out of hand and Evan the rich in both countries could end up being in big trouble in the future.
You keep on accusing the rest of us as being bigots and showing hate towards the criminal immigrants. I didn’t give criminal immigration one thought 3 years ago. It was when your beloved hate less criminal immigrants protested 2 years ago that finally woke me up to this problem. Your peaceful and hate less criminal immigrants showed every American citizen who and what they were truly about during the first round of protests. Mexican flags were everywhere; American flags were burning, American flags being flown below the Mexican flag, and American flags being flown in every disrespectful manner that your hate less criminal immigrants could think of. Then the chants of hate that spewed freely from their mouths, white man go home, this is our country, you invaded us, and the one I love the most racist pig. I’m sure there were other things they said, that’s all I can think of for now. Then I can’t even begin to put into words all of the signs that your wonderful hate less criminal immigrants were holding up. If your beloved criminal immigrants spent half the time they did on all the signs thinking of ways to fix their own government America wouldn’t be being invaded right now. Then the demands that your hate less criminal immigrants made are just laughable.
I still wonder why your criminal immigrants even make demands because they seem to get what ever the hell they want now. I have an idea...Everyone that is in favor of criminal immigration should sign a document stating that fact. Everyone against criminal immigration should also sign a document stating their opposition towards it. The ones in favor of criminal immigration get to continue to PAY for all the government programs that your hardworking criminal immigrants are exploiting and stealing from honest tax paying American citizens. All of the American citizens who oppose criminal immigration get to stop having their hard earned money taken out of their checks to pay the way of criminals who show completely no respect for this country and the American way of life.
YOU WANT THEM, YOU PAY FOR THEM.
I’m guessing if this could happen you would probably change your tune pretty quick.
I never said there was no hate from illegal immigrants for the U.S., there is plenty, unfortunately. I only said it was not dominant (yet).
At the rate things are going, I am sure it will be before long.
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-I think most of these figures given by Nativist extremists are WAY OFF!!!-That figure could be true, but I have seen no evidence for it. And frankly, I doubt it. -Of course it might depend on how you define "cause" death in this case, and just who you actually mean when you say "illegal". I am finding that people with your aproch have some VERY twisted definitions.
). But I DO NOT for one moment think they are dominant among Mexicans as a whole. Nor Evan illegals in general. They lack respect for sovereignty, yes, and we need to do something about that. But most do not hate us at all, -they have a whole different WAY of thinking about nation states (at least within the Americas), that is in conflict with ours. But if we show enough hatred toward them, you count on them returning the favor, -some already are.
Right on brother!
