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You're right about that but both the 4th and 14th Amendments prevents unreasonable search and seizure, which would be the legal issue involved in rounding up day laborers. It would be unreasonable for the police to randomly ask someone for ID unless the officer had some reason to believe crime was afoot; this would require more than a "hunch". See Terry v. Ohio
Such instances have already made their way through the courts, which all indicate that a belief that a person is an illegal immigrant is not enough to stop someone. Now, if you are actively chasing someone who you saw just cross the border, then that is a different story.
What could happen is that day workers could be stopped for loitering. They could then be asked for ID. This depends on where they are standing and the local law concerning it.
So standing in front of Home Depot soliciting for work rather than filling out the proper paperwork and tax forms to take these day laborer jobs isn't against the law regardless of a person's status in this country?
According to your logic though one would have to be perfect in order to justify being opposed to illegal immigration. That isn't possible since we are all human. Besides when an American breaks the law they pay the consequences. In the case of a speeding ticket there is only one person involved and only one person who will suffer for it....themselves. In the case of illegal immigration our whole country suffers. Many if not most Americans do not break laws intentionally anyway. So because "some" do that makes your case for illegal immigration for you? Just how desperate is your side going to get to justify the violation of our immigration laws?
Most Americans do break the law intentionally. Most Americans speed. Most Americans drank underage. Most Americans have tried marijuana at least once. Laws are not immutable. Laws are changed to accomodate behavior to have an acceptable social norm. The speed limits are raised. Underage drinking gets a slap on the wrist. Medical marijuana and decriminalization reforms occur.
Again, you clearly don't understand irony. Your previous arguments stated that illegal immigration is tantamount to rape and murder...because they are both crimes. So if that is the case, then speeding is the same as illegal immigration and rape. YOUR logic is flawed.
I can see that the simple concept of irony is too much.
The simplest method to fix this would be a random vehicle safety check like Escondido just pulled. They netted 34 vehicles from drivers that had no license. The Pro-Illegal groups are stating that their cars are being stolen. I guess they believe Illegals should have a separate set of rules since they can't legally obtain a DL?
You're right about that but both the 4th and 14th Amendments prevents unreasonable search and seizure, which would be the legal issue involved in rounding up day laborers. It would be unreasonable for the police to randomly ask someone for ID unless the officer had some reason to believe crime was afoot; this would require more than a "hunch". See Terry v. Ohio
Such instances have already made their way through the courts, which all indicate that a belief that a person is an illegal immigrant is not enough to stop someone. Now, if you are actively chasing someone who you saw just cross the border, then that is a different story.
What could happen is that day workers could be stopped for loitering. They could then be asked for ID. This depends on where they are standing and the local law concerning it.
That is a problem how---------especially in this severe recession?
Most Americans do break the law intentionally. Most Americans speed. Most Americans drank underage. Most Americans have tried marijuana at least once. Laws are not immutable. Laws are changed to accomodate behavior to have an acceptable social norm. The speed limits are raised. Underage drinking gets a slap on the wrist. Medical marijuana and decriminalization reforms occur.
Again, you clearly don't understand irony. Your previous arguments stated that illegal immigration is tantamount to rape and murder...because they are both crimes. So if that is the case, then speeding is the same as illegal immigration and rape. YOUR logic is flawed.
I can see that the simple concept of irony is too much.
Remember what you just stated: 'Laws are not immutable'; they can (and should) be tightened pertaining to illegal aliens and their Anchor Babies.
The simplest method to fix this would be a random vehicle safety check like Escondido just pulled. They netted 34 vehicles from drivers that had no license. The Pro-Illegal groups are stating that their cars are being stolen. I guess they believe Illegals should have a separate set of rules since they can't legally obtain a DL?
I have no problem having LE seizing the assets of people in this country illegally.
Most Americans do break the law intentionally. Most Americans speed. Most Americans drank underage. Most Americans have tried marijuana at least once. Laws are not immutable. Laws are changed to accomodate behavior to have an acceptable social norm. The speed limits are raised. Underage drinking gets a slap on the wrist. Medical marijuana and decriminalization reforms occur.
Again, you clearly don't understand irony. Your previous arguments stated that illegal immigration is tantamount to rape and murder...because they are both crimes. So if that is the case, then speeding is the same as illegal immigration and rape. YOUR logic is flawed.
I can see that the simple concept of irony is too much.
"Most Americans"? Do you have proof of that? What difference does it make anyway? That doesn't nullify our right to have and to enforce our immigration laws! You are grasping at straws here.
Yes, laws can be changed but you don't violate them or not enforce them until or if they are changed. You are speaking to the wrong poster here. I never said anything about about illegal immigration being tantamount to rape and murder. Try to keep your posters straight, will you?
"Most Americans"? Do you have proof of that? What difference does it make anyway? That doesn't nullify our right to have and to enforce our immigration laws! You are grasping at straws here.
Yes, laws can be changed but you don't violate them or not enforce them until or if they are changed. You are speaking to the wrong poster here. I never said anything about about illegal immigration being tantamount to rape and murder. Try to keep your posters straight, will you?
MOST Americans DO KNOWINGLY break the LAW. Some estimates range 30-60% of Americans have tried marijuana at least once (most put the figure at around 40-55%). Some estimates range that 50-60% of Americans have ever drank underage. Most Americans do speed. Thus, knowingly broken the law.
AGAIN you don't UNDERSTAND irony...In the past you have said that laws are laws...meaning that ALL laws and ALL crimes are the same. Thus, the logic should work in the other direction...that Americans committing ANY crime is tantamount to illegal immigration. This argument is bogus, yet it serves to show the hypocrisy that many embrace.
Having your main argument stating that I am grasping at straws, is oddly, grasping at straws. You lack the substance, thus you simply say things like "you are grasping at straws". It's not an observation.
Laws need to be changed to benefit the MAJORITY of ALL persons. You probably don't know the Prisoner's Dilemma, a theoritical game used in game theory/probability. In effect, the best outcome is cooperation with ALL parties. So kindness is generally the key for people to have a favorable outcome.
MOST Americans DO KNOWINGLY break the LAW. Some estimates range 30-60% of Americans have tried marijuana at least once (most put the figure at around 40-55%). Some estimates range that 50-60% of Americans have ever drank underage. Most Americans do speed. Thus, knowingly broken the law.
AGAIN you don't UNDERSTAND irony...In the past you have said that laws are laws...meaning that ALL laws and ALL crimes are the same. Thus, the logic should work in the other direction...that Americans committing ANY crime is tantamount to illegal immigration. This argument is bogus, yet it serves to show the hypocrisy that many embrace.
Having your main argument stating that I am grasping at straws, is oddly, grasping at straws. You lack the substance, thus you simply say things like "you are grasping at straws". It's not an observation.
Laws need to be changed to benefit the MAJORITY of ALL persons. You probably don't know the Prisoner's Dilemma, a theoritical game used in game theory/probability. In effect, the best outcome is cooperation with ALL parties. So kindness is generally the key for people to have a favorable outcome.
Try to keep up with the conversation, will you?
Again, some of the statements you are claiming I made I didn't! You totally ignored that I pointed that out and contiinue to attribute someone elses remarks to me. You have me mixed up with someone else. As I asked before, keep your posters straight, will you?
Yes, laws need to reflect the best interests of the majority of AMERICANS not illegal foreigners but if you think changing our immigration laws or giving amnesty to millions of illegal aliens is in keeping with those best interests you are sadly mistaken.
Just because Americans break laws does not justify having uncontrolled illegal immigration into our country. What kind of logic is that? You quote all kinds of statistics on lawbreakers with nothing to back your claims up with anyway and who cares? It is irrevelant in the illegal immigration issue.
Again, some of the statements you are claiming I made I didn't! You totally ignored that I pointed that out and contiinue to attribute someone elses remarks to me. You have me mixed up with someone else. As I asked before, keep your posters straight, will you?
Yes, laws need to reflect the best interests of the majority of AMERICANS not illegal foreigners but if you think changing our immigration laws or giving amnesty to millions of illegal aliens is in keeping with those best interests you are sadly mistaken.
Just because Americans break laws does not justify having uncontrolled illegal immigration into our country. What kind of logic is that? You quote all kinds of statistics on lawbreakers with nothing to back your claims up with anyway and who cares? It is irrevelant in the illegal immigration issue.
Consider the source.
The pro illegals realize the party is over hence them trying to use the race card, etc. to stave of certain disaster for their cause.
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