Would our immigrant forefathers be proud of us.... (visa, quotes, illegal immigrants)

[Raimy]

Originally Posted by monkey cabal

If you go back far enough WE were the illegal aliens. Native Americans hated to see us invading their pristine countryside and ruining their nations.

If you go back far enough, there were no immigration laws therefore "WE" could not possibly be called illegal aliens. Today we do have immigration laws and that's why people who choose to willingly come to this country without going through the proper legal channels are called illegal aliens and need to be stopped.

[macmeal]

Originally Posted by monkey cabal

If you go back far enough WE were the illegal aliens. Native Americans hated to see us invading their pristine countryside and ruining their nations.

Excellent point. Go back a little further, and we were worshipping rocks, howling at the moon, eating raw meat, and wooing our mates with a club.

How far do you want to go back? My spouse is an Indian (she feels that 'Native American' sounds silly), and SHE seems to prefer the present to the past. She seems to have 'gotten over it'.

Just how much do we want to judge the present situation in terms of the past?

[borderlord]

Originally Posted by monkey cabal

If you go back far enough WE were the illegal aliens. Native Americans hated to see us invading their pristine countryside and ruining their nations.

Not sure just who the "We" you refer to might be....

but what about the Apache ( Chirichaua) mexican wars during the 1870's?

[d-iron]

Originally Posted by macmeal

Certainly not. After their struggles...after they went through the arduous process of coming here, being pressured to assimilate, to put their former cultures behind them, and come together with their new neighbors to form a society based not on 'ethnic ties', but on the rule of law....they'd be absolutely DISGUSTED to see us now, determined to throw it all away in the name of some vaguely-understood concept of 'multiculturalism', in which we can't agree that we HAVE a culture....can't define what an American IS...ask absolutely nothing of any potential "new" Americans, except that they 'allow us to accomodate them'....and can't even tell the difference between a legal immigrant and a trespasser.

No, they wouldn't be proud of us at all. They'd be sad and disgusted. They'd probably feel that we no longer 'deserved' to live here, since we seemed to take so little interest in the country they worked so hard to build.

Jesus dude don't have a stroke or anything.

So ideally what kind of "America" would you like to have imagined/became?

[d-iron]

Originally Posted by chicagonut

I don't know of any rampant abuse of "immigrants" in this country. Bet you are speaking of illegal aliens, aren't you? They aren't immigrants.

Yeah that's true there isn't any "abuses" going on towards Illegals, maybe my opening statement was worded wrong.

[John C. H.]

Originally Posted by d-iron

By the way we treat today's immigrants?

Sure...they killed off most of the Indian population by then. And they kept salvery legal...so they didn't care about African immigrants being sold as property. I don't think they would have a problem with it.

[borderlord]

Originally Posted by d-iron

Jesus dude don't have a stroke or anything.

So ideally what kind of "America" would you like to have imagined/became?

Parody,nothing more...........dude....

[monkey cabal]

Originally Posted by Raimy

If you go back far enough, there were no immigration laws therefore "WE" could not possibly be called illegal aliens. Today we do have immigration laws and that's why people who choose to willingly come to this country without going through the proper legal channels are called illegal aliens and need to be stopped.

Maybe not written laws. But Native Americans (or Indians or whatever) enforced customs and social norms just like we do today with our laws. Maybe they did not need to have written laws because they did not have any lawyers. In that respect Indians may have been more advanced than we are today.

[John C. H.]

Originally Posted by 1979

Our ancestors would be appalled by the fact that we have allowed people to immigrate to this country that they created, who do not share the culture, or the value system that our Western European ancestors ingrained in American civilization. They were the very people that built this nation: and made it what it is. Our ancestors would see how immigrants who come here today, exploit this country. People who came here centuries ago, came here to GIVE; immigrants who come here today, come here to TAKE! Immigrants who come here today are lazy, and know about subsidies. Those immigrants who came here decades ago ago didn't have welfare, foodstamps, social security disability, section 8 housing, WIC programs, and they didn't care! That was not why they came, they came to work hard. Back then, unlike today, however, there was a need for manual labor.

Also, our ancestors never in a million years would have regarded "people of color" as equals in anyway. They would not have been considered for the privileges they are afforded today by the bureacracy, culture and establishment created by white people. They knew more than anybody that this thing called "diversity" was nothing more than a sham; that it would infect this country like a virus. They overwhelmingly agreed with the National Origins Act which permitted people from Western Europe to come here. Looking what has happened since the National Origins Act was abolished 44 years ago, it has become quite clear, our ancestors were right. Immigrants who come here today, represent the greatest liability our nation has faced. They don't speak the language, nor do they want to. They often have no skills, and truthfully our economy does not allow for such large increases in population year after year. Our country does not create jobs the way it once did.

LOL...you are so anti-immigrant racist and not ashamed to show it. White people who came here and stole lands because they were running away from their kings is a funny thing. And then went to African to import slaves to work their new stolen lands to get rich. People like that are called corrupted, godless thieves in my book. Yeah, I'm sure they wanted us to continue that "culture" you speak of. Diversity to them back them was the backward, savage, uncivilized Indians and Black slaves. You are right, they didn't intend for this country to be as diverse as today. It was really meant for the English to escape British rule and become independent in a new land away from the King. Wouldn't it be cool if we ran our country EXACTLY the way it was back then. Oh the fun!

[monkey cabal]

Originally Posted by macmeal

Excellent point. Go back a little further, and we were worshipping rocks, howling at the moon, eating raw meat, and wooing our mates with a club.

Some are still doing these things today.

Originally Posted by macmeal

How far do you want to go back? My spouse is an Indian (she feels that 'Native American' sounds silly), and SHE seems to prefer the present to the past. She seems to have 'gotten over it'.

I meant no offense. It is hard for me to keep up with what every different group wants to be called.

Originally Posted by macmeal

Just how much do we want to judge the present situation in terms of the past?

I was simply pointing out that those who want to throw every illegal alien out on their ear should consider that we were once the illegal alien invaders.