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Old 11-17-2009, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Sorry if you aren't old enough to have experienced that childhood, Arizona Bear. It was so unbelievably different back then. There was such a sense of "home" and connection to one's community and country. Not so anymore.
Actually; I was old enough (born in 1957), just that my father was too damned ethnocentric for his own good IMHO. Being saddled with a name that is as ethnic as Barack Obama sucked.

 
Old 11-17-2009, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Cali
3,885 posts, read 5,995,057 times
Reputation: 2200
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Cells View Post
No!

Put an END to the issue by making American Standard English the OFFICIAL LANGUAGE of the United States.

If we make "spanish" an official language, number two or what ever, you will open up the flood gates for endless arguments to legitimize every other language spoken in the US.

Stupid.

Make English the language and have everyone learn how to read write and speak English.
Absolutely! One language, one flag, one government, one nation!!!:-)
 
Old 11-17-2009, 09:22 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
And what is the French culture? The Spanish? The German?
Would these people be able to define their 'culture'?

The French drink wine.
The Spanish watch bull fights.
The Germans make good cars.

Are these defining a culture?

The American culture is being loyal to your country, learning its history, knowing that if a person works hard and smart they can enjoy some of the good things in life, celebrating our national holidays and understanding why we celebrate them, believing that our children can have better lives than their parents because they are not stuck in a caste system, ...well, I guess I could go on.

Our culture is the same now as it was 200 years ago or 100 years ago or 50 years ago.
No argument here. Best wishes to the French, the Spanish, and the Germans...as well as the Japanese, the Czechs, and the Mexicans. But they're not like us. When a foreigner arrives in France; or Spain; or any OTHER of these places, he remains a foreigner, in public opinion, and in many case in legal terms, as well. He's not "French", he's a foreigner; etc etc.

When a foreigner arrives in the USA, he's instantly on the 'fast track' to becoming an American...and anyone who says otherwise is quickly corrected. He need do NOTHING, need learn no English, need to believe in NO principles, nor express any interest in American values, nor history...indeed, he may not even LIKE America, nor anything about it..neverthless, he'll quickly become an "American"...our laws guarantee it. If he's illegal, he'll be thought of as "wanting" to be American...but we won't "let him".
If he takes the "Oath of Citizenship", he'll have to swear loyalty to the US...but obviously, this is meaningless, since he'll be able to retain dual citizenship with his former country...and you can't be loyal to us, and loyal to somewhere else at the same time.

With all that in mind, I see little reason to expect foreigners to assimilate, other than personal whim.

I do NOT agree that our culture is the same as it was 200 years ago.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
No argument here. Best wishes to the French, the Spanish, and the Germans...as well as the Japanese, the Czechs, and the Mexicans. But they're not like us. When a foreigner arrives in France; or Spain; or any OTHER of these places, he remains a foreigner, in public opinion, and in many case in legal terms, as well. He's not "French", he's a foreigner; etc etc.

When a foreigner arrives in the USA, he's instantly on the 'fast track' to becoming an American...and anyone who says otherwise is quickly corrected. He need do NOTHING, need learn no English, need to believe in NO principles, nor express any interest in American values, nor history...indeed, he may not even LIKE America, nor anything about it..neverthless, he'll quickly become an "American"...our laws guarantee it. If he's illegal, he'll be thought of as "wanting" to be American...but we won't "let him".
If he takes the "Oath of Citizenship", he'll have to swear loyalty to the US...but obviously, this is meaningless, since he'll be able to retain dual citizenship with his former country...and you can't be loyal to us, and loyal to somewhere else at the same time.

With all that in mind, I see little reason to expect foreigners to assimilate, other than personal whim.

I do NOT agree that our culture is the same as it was 200 years ago.
That's a sad truth. In our quest to adhere to political correctness, and our desire to be perceived as the benevolent welcoming country for the impoverished and mistreated of the world, we somehow forgot to protect our own culture.

We consider it paramount to embrace other cultures, because to do otherwise, we would be labeled nativists. In the process, we marginalize and deny what it truly means to be an American. Then, we wonder why foreigners expect to retain their cultures, to the detriment of ours. Its very sad indeed.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 10:14 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Here is my take on it. We still have a basic culture such as the English language is still our national language but there are those who would deny it because they want to think of this country as being a multi-cultural utopia instead and desire for our culture to be diluted in that manner. They can wish it all they want but it doesn't make it so.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 11:21 AM
 
Location: New Jersey
12,775 posts, read 7,380,841 times
Reputation: 13043
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
No argument here. Best wishes to the French, the Spanish, and the Germans...as well as the Japanese, the Czechs, and the Mexicans. But they're not like us. When a foreigner arrives in France; or Spain; or any OTHER of these places, he remains a foreigner, in public opinion, and in many case in legal terms, as well. He's not "French", he's a foreigner; etc etc.

When a foreigner arrives in the USA, he's instantly on the 'fast track' to becoming an American...and anyone who says otherwise is quickly corrected. He need do NOTHING, need learn no English, need to believe in NO principles, nor express any interest in American values, nor history...indeed, he may not even LIKE America, nor anything about it..neverthless, he'll quickly become an "American"...our laws guarantee it. If he's illegal, he'll be thought of as "wanting" to be American...but we won't "let him".
If he takes the "Oath of Citizenship", he'll have to swear loyalty to the US...but obviously, this is meaningless, since he'll be able to retain dual citizenship with his former country...and you can't be loyal to us, and loyal to somewhere else at the same time.

With all that in mind, I see little reason to expect foreigners to assimilate, other than personal whim.

I do NOT agree that our culture is the same as it was 200 years ago.
I agree with your first paragraph. I'm not sure what you mean by 'on the fast track to becoming an American', though. Do you mean that native-born Americans think or assume that a foreigener becoming a citizen of the US should be accepted as a citizen? The USA is so very different from the old European countries, although they, too, had their influx of foreigeners from all over the known world; but that all happened in the relatively distant past (say 1,000 to 500 years ago). Americans are used to different cultures because our ancestors came from so many different places. Maybe that's why we seem to want to assimilate others so quickly.

Qualifier: I'm talking about LEGAL immigrants only in the above.

People who want citizenship do need to speak English, take a citizenship test, etc., however, there is no test for MOTIVE or how someone really feels about America. I know quite a few people from other countries and sometimes they do disparage the US, saying their country is so much better. It POs me but then I think 'why are you here, then?'. The answer is because it IS better here and they know it; just don't want to admit it. There is an Indian woman who was telling me where she lived (in a group of townhouses) that 'everyone there is Indian; it's just like being home'. Huh? But it can be pretty much guaranteed that her children will grow up to be American.

I very much agree with you about the dual citizenship. The illegal alien group, well, I won't even get into that. They should not be here, period!

I think our group culture is the same as 200 years ago; our desire for freedom, etc. Of course, technology certainly has changed!
 
Old 11-17-2009, 11:26 AM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
60,124 posts, read 30,614,837 times
Reputation: 12816
When the people fear the government, you have tyranny.

When the government fears the people, you have liberty.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 01:47 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,035,044 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by BentBow View Post
When the people fear the government, you have tyranny.

When the government fears the people, you have liberty.

And when the government ignores the will of the people in order to gain votes, power and money then you have the current US house and senate.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 03:06 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
And when the government ignores the will of the people in order to gain votes, power and money then you have the current US house and senate.
Right..and when people agree to do 'yucky' things, with 'yucky' people, (people they may not even LIKE), and sell their integrity for money or 'goodies', you have politics..or is it prostitution ?...I can't remember which...
 
Old 11-17-2009, 04:45 PM
 
Location: Chicagoland
4,028 posts, read 6,223,837 times
Reputation: 1305
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
And when the government ignores the will of the people in order to gain votes, power and money then you have the current US house and senate.
Only kind of.
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