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Old 11-12-2009, 10:23 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,087,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XodoX View Post
wow. what a crappy article.

Umm, 2.5 Million illegals? Yeah, right. More like 25 Million.

It's also not "only" 75% from Latin America. The last numbers I heard were well above over 80%. The source is
Hispanic American Center for Economic Research (http://www.hacer.org/current/US313.php - broken link). Can't take them seriously.
It's not 25 million it's closer to 8 million.

 
Old 11-12-2009, 10:28 PM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,087,689 times
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The same way we budget for anything else in this country. The end result/long term implications would be a net gain in tax dollars anyway. Who said we had to militarize the border cheaply? Having a military has never been cheap but a necessity. This isn't about "cheaper" anyway. It is making a priority the rule of law and retaining jobs and benefits for Americans and not adding millions of uneducated, unskilled peasants to our population.

Well, we didn't do a great job budgeting for Iraq. Cheap is needed, since your position is that it is cheaper to militarize a 2,000 mile border. Also check EVERY person entering into the US (keep tabs on them). It IS about cheaper. The best way to retain jobs and benefits is by not placing an extra burden on Americans that a) doesn't help foster the middle class and b) doesn't aid our fellow human.

If e-verify is implemented across the board we won't have to "find" illegals they will self-deport without jobs especially if we make it clear there will be no amnesty. That along with slamming the hammer down on all employers whether they be large or small in implementing large fines and prison time for hiring illegals will take care of most of the illegal alien problem. We need to end the anchor baby fiasco also and demand proof of citizenship in order for anyone to qualify for taxpayer benefits. Problem solved!

The above will create a black market. So it's really a matter of how to legalize these workers in order to not create a black market labor pool. I would be okay with ending the land right of birth (they are people not anchors).
 
Old 11-13-2009, 05:56 AM
 
Location: The Wine Country, CA
807 posts, read 1,118,722 times
Reputation: 302
Umm. last time I checked 25% was NOT a majority number..
 
Old 11-13-2009, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,923,670 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Again, patroling the borders and deporation would be throwing money decade after decade without any pay out. With my idea, you create and foster a middle class, you allow success in order for people to pay their taxes...there is a pay out.
Unfortunately your idea also rewards those who prefer to cheat the system. It rewards criminal behavior and re-enforces said behavior for more to follow.
We have a drug problem in this country. Your theory in practice would have us not only legalizing what dealers do but providing them a license to do it.
Drunk drivers. We have a lot of those too. Well we won't punish them for it. We will provide them additional insurance.
Rapists. Nope don't jail them. Provide them with a release.
Rewarding criminal behavior never works.
 
Old 11-13-2009, 07:02 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,685,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Again, patroling the borders and deporation would be throwing money decade after decade without any pay out. With my idea, you create and foster a middle class, you allow success in order for people to pay their taxes...there is a pay out.
Quote:
MEXICO CITY -- Business groups in Ciudad Juarez said Wednesday they are calling for United Nations peacekeepers to quell the drug-related violence that has given their city one of the highest homicide rates in the world.

Maynez said the United States could also contribute to the solution, adding that the U.S. might be forced to in its own interests.

"We know that sooner or later, the violence will spill over into our sister city of El Paso, Texas," he said.
Juarez business groups call for UN peacekeepers - El Paso Times

Now; are you sure that closing/locking our southern border would still be a bad idea?

Reading between the lines; it may be just a matter of months, not years before Mexico implodes.

Anybody willing to venture a guess if or possibly when we (the USA) winds up with part of Mexico?
 
Old 11-13-2009, 09:29 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,087,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Unfortunately your idea also rewards those who prefer to cheat the system. It rewards criminal behavior and re-enforces said behavior for more to follow.
We have a drug problem in this country. Your theory in practice would have us not only legalizing what dealers do but providing them a license to do it.
Drunk drivers. We have a lot of those too. Well we won't punish them for it. We will provide them additional insurance.
Rapists. Nope don't jail them. Provide them with a release.
Rewarding criminal behavior never works.
Rape and drunk driving are not the same as illegal immigration. That would be like saying jay walking is murder. Obviously not the case.

No it doesn't reward criminal behavior, since the law would change. Thus, those meeting specific qualifications (working after x number of years, obtaining secondary education, military service) would be granted amnesty.

As for drugs, studies show that some legalization (marijuana in particular) would actually do harm to drug dealers in the long run. The market would open up. In fact, Philip Morris has gotten into legal trouble for anticipating legalization and trademarking the name Marley for its brand of marijuana cigarettes. Thus, competition from trusted brands will decrease drug sales. In a black market economy, restrictions act as trade protection. The same in illegal immigration. Restrictions line the pockets of coyotes.

We have seen how wars on ideology end...badly. The war on drugs drains us of billions of dollars without making a dent. The war on terror is escalating with no end in sight. The war on illegal immigration is following the same suit as the other two. What needs to change is the approach.

We can find a way to help these people as well as help the entire nation. We have better verification techniques to determine legality. We also make companies who hire illegal immigrants sponsor them and both pay a fine. If they do perform criminal acts, we deport them.
 
Old 11-13-2009, 09:37 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,087,689 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Juarez business groups call for UN peacekeepers - El Paso Times

Now; are you sure that closing/locking our southern border would still be a bad idea?

Reading between the lines; it may be just a matter of months, not years before Mexico implodes.

Anybody willing to venture a guess if or possibly when we (the USA) winds up with part of Mexico?
El Paso still remains one of the safest cities in the nation...so locking our border is still a bad idea...

Quite possibly national lines in the future will be more like how state lines are like currently in the US. Huge blocs instead of tiny nations. At least that currently seems to be the trend.
 
Old 11-13-2009, 09:42 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Rape and drunk driving are not the same as illegal immigration. That would be like saying jay walking is murder. Obviously not the case.

No it doesn't reward criminal behavior, since the law would change. Thus, those meeting specific qualifications (working after x number of years, obtaining secondary education, military service) would be granted amnesty.

We have seen how wars on ideology end...badly. The war on drugs drains us of billions of dollars without making a dent. The war on terror is escalating with no end in sight. The war on illegal immigration is following the same suit as the other two. What needs to change is the approach.

We can find a way to help these people as well as help the entire nation. We have better verification techniques to determine legality. We also make companies who hire illegal immigrants sponsor them and both pay a fine. If they do perform criminal acts, we deport them.
Apparently you don’t realize that “some” of the foreigners breaching our border security, and overstaying visas, are in fact rapists and drunk drivers. Some are even murderers. You can’t state that these issues are separate from illegal immigration, unless there are NO illegal aliens committing these acts.

Allow employers to “sponsor” illegal aliens and pay a fine? Isn’t that defeating the purpose of having immigration laws? Are you advocating indentured servitude? We have laws and they need to be enforced. If foreigners are unable to enter this country through legal channels, or insist on overstaying visas, there are consequences for their decisions. They should not be rewarded, nor should they be embraced.
 
Old 11-13-2009, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,685,038 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
El Paso still remains one of the safest cities in the nation...so locking our border is still a bad idea...
Even the article stated that El Paso is at risk.

Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
Quite possibly national lines in the future will be more like how state lines are like currently in the US. Huge blocs instead of tiny nations. At least that currently seems to be the trend.
If discussing Mexico: it would be more of a takeover, lock, stock and barrel; which would entail the phaseout of any aspect of Mexican/Hispanic law/culture that conflicts with US law/culture----------up to and the suppression of Spanish. Face it: the stronger society would prevail--------and, it ain't Mexico.
 
Old 11-13-2009, 09:53 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,172,244 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
It's not 25 million it's closer to 8 million.
What? Even the lowest estimates found everywhere agree that we have at least 12 milion illegals in our country.
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