U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-13-2009, 02:18 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,412,046 times
Reputation: 475

Advertisements

Here is an interesting article depicting the different arguments between those that oppose illegal immigrants and those that support illegal immigrants.

One that is particularly interesting is about crime since many of you quote Dobbs misinformation, here is some crime data.

Quote:
Anti-immigrant activists often use crime incidents committed by undocumented residents to claim they are the reason of high crime rates in the nation and that they should be deported to save American lives.

Although the undocumented immigrant population doubled to about 12 million from 1994 to 2004, data from the Bureau of Justice Statistics indicate that violent crime rate in the U.S. declined by 31.5 percent during this period of time and that the property crime rate fell by 25 percent. The department indicates that the decline was not just national but also occurred in border areas like San Diego, El Paso, and Miami.

A 2008 report from the conservative Americas Majority Foundation found that crime rates are lowest in states with the highest immigration growth rates, casting doubt on the alleged correlation between immigrants and crime.

In fact, a 2007 study by sociologist Ruben G. Rumbaut from the University of California, Irvine found that for every ethnic group, without exception, incarceration rates among young men are lowest for immigrants, even those who are least educated.

Persons who oppose illegal immigration argue that 35 percent of all inmates in California detention centers are Mexican nationals who are residing in the state illegally. But authorities project that only 19,000 of the 172,000 inmates (11 percent) in the system for the 2009-2010 fiscal year will be illegal immigrants.

According to a report released by the Public Policy Institute of California in 2008, U.S.-born men in California are 10 times more likely to be incarcerated than foreign-born men.

Fontana Herald News > News

Quote:
The moral arguments have been made without compassion for the most part. Very few people care if a father is ripped from his family, deported, leaving his family, who has lived in the same apartment for 15 years, homeless,” said Larry Ortega, president and founder of the Community Union Inc. “The undocumented are easily named the scapegoat for many of the ills of our community.
I would not have a problem if the government would have been actively enforcing the laws on the books but to have 12 million illegal immigrants who may fall under the same scenario is imo...abuse.

The article quotes many stats from numbersUSA, which in my opinion is not a reliable source.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-13-2009, 05:32 AM
 
41 posts, read 91,147 times
Reputation: 39
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
Here is an interesting article depicting the different arguments between those that oppose illegal immigrants and those that support illegal immigrants.

One that is particularly interesting is about crime since many of you quote Dobbs misinformation, here is some crime data.




Fontana Herald News > News



I would not have a problem if the government would have been actively enforcing the laws on the books but to have 12 million illegal immigrants who may fall under the same scenario is imo...abuse.

The article quotes many stats from numbersUSA, which in my opinion is not a reliable source.








Note the word "ILLEGAL". I don't care how hard it is to obtain citizenship. I personally know and have read of so many people who have waited years and years and were scrutinized but put up with it so they could be here LEGALLY. These people came from Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, and other Latin-American countries. These people earned their citizenship, learned the official language of our country fluently, and either attended universities or began rewarding and productive careers.

If we have people here who are living here year after year just to work and have no intention of becoming citizens of our country; they need to leave. If they really love their heritage and culture that they left behind in their native country and are just using America for a job then maybe they should go home and change things in their own country. Our own country has gone through revolutions in order to get where we are and these involved large sacrifices of the people here. Why shouldn't these people do the same in their own countries.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2009, 05:40 AM
 
Location: The Wine Country, CA
807 posts, read 1,117,357 times
Reputation: 302
Yes.. Despite the attempts by racist and ethnocentric groups to shut ANY debate down on the invasion on our country and the victimization of American taxpayers, the debate continues...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2009, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,892,472 times
Reputation: 6517
Only 19,000? Wow I was scared for a minute I thought that it was 19,500.
So 19000 are criminals In prison and living off the tax payer dime.
What about the thousands committing tax fraud, ID theft, driving without a license, no insurance? Do they count as criminals?
If a father is deported. Well guess what? Legal citizens whose parents also legal citizens suffer the same fate when said parent is caught committing a crime.
Consequences..... Legals hooking up with illegals should realize that some day chances are they will run out of time. Word to the wise. Do it right, follow the rules, and stay away from illegals.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2009, 06:12 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,637,375 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike8290 View Post
Note the word "ILLEGAL". I don't care how hard it is to obtain citizenship. I personally know and have read of so many people who have waited years and years and were scrutinized but put up with it so they could be here LEGALLY. These people came from Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, and other Latin-American countries. These people earned their citizenship, learned the official language of our country fluently, and either attended universities or began rewarding and productive careers.

If we have people here who are living here year after year just to work and have no intention of becoming citizens of our country; they need to leave. If they really love their heritage and culture that they left behind in their native country and are just using America for a job then maybe they should go home and change things in their own country. Our own country has gone through revolutions in order to get where we are and these involved large sacrifices of the people here. Why shouldn't these people do the same in their own countries.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bipolarpunk View Post
Yes.. Despite the attempts by racist and ethnocentric groups to shut ANY debate down on the invasion on our country and the victimization of American taxpayers, the debate continues...
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
Only 19,000? Wow I was scared for a minute I thought that it was 19,500.
So 19000 are criminals In prison and living off the tax payer dime.
What about the thousands committing tax fraud, ID theft, driving without a license, no insurance? Do they count as criminals?
If a father is deported. Well guess what? Legal citizens whose parents also legal citizens suffer the same fate when said parent is caught committing a crime.
Consequences..... Legals hooking up with illegals should realize that some day chances are they will run out of time. Word to the wise. Do it right, follow the rules, and stay away from illegals.
As all of you stated.

More and more; the pro illegal alien apologists have their backs against the wall and are lashing out in fear and desperation. They intuitively realize the amnesty option is over and mass deportations or at least internments are getting ready to occur.

In fact; where I live, the Spanish speakers are continuing to dwindle away----------more and more vacancies, etc.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2009, 07:16 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,739,847 times
Reputation: 22159
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike8290 View Post
Note the word "ILLEGAL". I don't care how hard it is to obtain citizenship. I personally know and have read of so many people who have waited years and years and were scrutinized but put up with it so they could be here LEGALLY. These people came from Guatemala, Honduras, Mexico, and other Latin-American countries. These people earned their citizenship, learned the official language of our country fluently, and either attended universities or began rewarding and productive careers.

If we have people here who are living here year after year just to work and have no intention of becoming citizens of our country; they need to leave. If they really love their heritage and culture that they left behind in their native country and are just using America for a job then maybe they should go home and change things in their own country. Our own country has gone through revolutions in order to get where we are and these involved large sacrifices of the people here. Why shouldn't these people do the same in their own countries.
True and massive illegal immigration makes it all the more difficult for those who would like to do things the right way. If the cheap labor corporations and other employers can simply order up semi-trailer loads of illegals, they have no incentive to sponsor immigrants to work legally. The USA has seen extremely high rates of population increases mostly due to massive uncontrolled immigration which certainly lessens the need to allow in more legal immigrants.

If people want more legal immigration then we must have some control over illegal immigration because we're already in economic turmoil, rising unemployment while the illegals continue to pour over the border. It's reaching a breaking point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2009, 07:45 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,156,126 times
Reputation: 2130
Well stated, malamute and others! No need for me to add a thing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2009, 08:21 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,821,083 times
Reputation: 3028
Default $Billions spent incarcerating criminal aliens

No, illegal immigration isn’t a problem.

Quote:
At the federal level, the number of criminal aliens incarcerated increased from about 42,000 at the end of calendar year 2001 to about 49,000 at the end of calendar year 2004 — a 15 percent increase.

It is estimated the federal cost of incarcerating criminal aliens — Bureau of Prison's cost to incarcerate criminals and reimbursements to state and local governments under SCAAP — totaled approximately $5.8 billion for calendar years 2001 through 2004. BOP's cost to incarcerate criminal aliens rose from about $950 million in 2001 to about $1.2 billion in 2004 — a 14 percent increase.

Federal reimbursements for incarcerating criminal aliens in state prisons and local jails declined from $550 million in 2001 to $280 million in 2004, in a large part due to a reduction in congressional appropriations.

For the 5 states incarcerating about 80 percent of these criminal aliens in fiscal year 2003, about 68 percent incarcerated in mid-year 2004 reported that the country of citizenship or country of birth as Mexico, the Dominican Republic, or Cuba. Four of these 5 states spent about $1.6 billion to incarcerate criminal aliens reimbursed through SCAAP during fiscal years 2002 and 2003. Estimates are that the federal government reimbursed these four states about 25 percent or less of the estimated cost to incarcerate these criminal aliens in fiscal years 2002 and 2003.

At the local level, in fiscal year 2002, SCAAP reimbursed about 750 local governments for incarcerating about 138,000 criminal aliens. In fiscal year 2003, SCAAP reimbursed about 700 local governments for about 147,000 criminal aliens, with 5 local jail systems accounting for about 30 percent of these criminal aliens. The 147,000 criminal aliens incarcerated during fiscal year 2003 spent a total of about 8.5 million days in jail. Mexico leads as the country of birth for foreign-born arrestees at these 5 local jails in fiscal year 2003.
Sources: US Justice Department, US Bureau of Prisons, General Accountability Office, American Federation of Police, National Association of Chiefs of Police

$Billions spent incarcerating criminal aliens
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-13-2009, 11:45 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,820 posts, read 30,068,682 times
Reputation: 17698
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
Here is an interesting article depicting the different arguments between those that oppose illegal immigrants and those that support illegal immigrants.

One that is particularly interesting is about crime since many of you quote Dobbs misinformation, here is some crime data.




Fontana Herald News > News



I would not have a problem if the government would have been actively enforcing the laws on the books but to have 12 million illegal immigrants who may fall under the same scenario is imo...abuse.

The article quotes many stats from numbersUSA, which in my opinion is not a reliable source.
I'd say that the "ripping apart" all started voluntarily when the man left his FAMILY in the old Country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-14-2009, 05:36 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,892,472 times
Reputation: 6517
The irony of this whole thing is that this article attempts to minimize the fact that 19,000 illegals are criminals. In other words a minimum of 19,000 victims. 19,000 preventable crimes. 19,000 that were brought to justice.
Where I come 19,000 is still a substantial number. How many of these 19,000 are in prison for murder? Rape? child molestation?
These are the numbers that matter. How many victims were left behind?
Then to say oh well home grown folks are more likely to commit a crime as if this changes anything.
And yet the pro-illegal side wonder why those of us who want our laws enforced just can't get past 19,000 convicted felons who are illegals. This is in but 1 state.......
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top