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Old 11-14-2009, 01:56 PM
 
Location: NC
10,005 posts, read 8,722,237 times
Reputation: 3062

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
Clearly you did not read the article. Many do pay taxes. Just read the article.

"Most" of the money does not leave the US. These are people who also have to survive here and need to contribute to two economies in order to survive.
The article states that in the year 2000 350,000 ITIN forms were filed (top of pg. 23). The US census estimated 8.4 million illegals in the US in that year. This suggests that only 4% of illegals filed to pay taxes that year...Many is a relative term.

On the topic of taxation without representation, far more worrying to me is that there are 500,000+ US citizens who happen to live in the District of Columbia, many of whom pay federal taxes, and are denied any meaningful representation.

Last edited by Randomstudent; 11-14-2009 at 02:07 PM..
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:50 PM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,412,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
1. Illegals have made a choice. The choice to ignore our laws
2. For every job that illegals allegedly pay tax on income, is a job a legal could do at going wage.
3. The hardship illegals endure are self imposed. See #1
4. What ever money illegals pay into the system is dwarfed by the damage done and the expenses of dealing with said damage.
5. The crimes they commit are in the billions. ID theft, tax fraud, working with no insurances,driving without insurance, not to mention the many other crimes they commit.
Its kind of hard to feel sorry for the bad guy. In this case all illegals are the bad guys.
With all respect tinman, the issue at hand is not the criminality but the financial burden or not. Lets do one issue at a time. If we continue to mix all subjects in one, we will never solve anything.
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Old 11-14-2009, 09:52 PM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,412,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
If here illegally; expect to receive the shaft. There is a reason why we have immigration laws.

Needless to say: the US government should have the obligation to seize the assets of said criminal losers prior to their deportation/ban from here.
Again AZ, lets comment and debate on the article. We already know you prefer deportation. That's off topic.
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:19 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,713,217 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
For those of you that keep saying that illegal immigrants cost more on government services than they actually put into our economy, here is an informative article from the HARVARD Latino Law Review.

This article will also answer many questions regarding tax questions.



The Taxation of Undocumented Immigrants: Separate, Unequal, and Without Representation (http://www.law.harvard.edu/students/orgs/llr/vol9/lipman.php#Heading169 - broken link)
It's real simple.


Quote:
3. Education and Income Levels

Despite the high rate of employment and the presence of two-parent families, undocumented immigrant families are many times more likely to have family incomes below the poverty level.[91] Marriage and work have not been an antidote for lack of education and English proficiency.[92] Forty-nine percent of undocumented immigrants have not completed high school, although twenty-five percent do have some college education.[93] Notably, the education level of undocumented immigrants arriving more recently in the United States is higher than that of those who have been in the country for a decade or more.[94] Nevertheless, limited education often accompanies limited English proficiency.[95] Most undocumented immigrants lack critical English language skills.[96]
High school dropouts use more in benefits and services than they pay in taxes. This is true for our very own HS dropouts who at least stayed in school until age 16 and speak English.

Quote:
The report goes on to note: "Americans without a high school diploma have considerably lower earning power and job opportunities in today's workforce. Over a working lifetime from ages 18-64, high school dropouts are estimated to earn $400,000 less than those that graduated from high school. For males, the lifetime earnings loss is nearly $485,000 and exceeds $500,000 in many large states. Due to their lower lifetime earnings and other sources of market incomes, dropouts will contribute far less in federal, state and local taxes than they will receive in cash benefits, in-kind transfers and correctional costs. Over their lifetimes, this will impose a net fiscal burden on the rest of society.
'High school dropout crisis' continues in U.S., study says - CNN.com (http://tinyurl.com/y8reg4q - broken link)

Whether you like it or not, the typical illegal alien who lacks a HS education is going to be someone the rest of us end up footing the bill for. They don't earn any money! How much do you think someone earning $18,000 a year and claims a bunch of kids as a tax deduction is going to be paying in taxes? Even if they never see a dime of that money again, it is doubtful that it would cover the costs of the free healthcare, education, etc. that they have no problem helping themselves to. As for property taxes, if you have multiple families living in one home they are not going to be paying much in property taxes. And they will be living in an area where property taxes are not that high anyhow. Where do you think they are going to live? In Beverly Hills? Oh yes, but they pay sales tax! On what? groceries? It is not like they are going to go out and buy a yacht or a Ferrari (unless they are a drug dealer).

This is common sense. People with minimal education and no discernible job skills who do not speak English are not going to be net contributors. Coming here and squatting illegally in the hopes that we will throw our hands up in the air and say, "Oh, all right! We will give you amnesty", is a real good deal for them and a real bad deal for the US.

Last edited by andreabeth; 11-14-2009 at 10:44 PM..
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:24 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,446,444 times
Reputation: 47456
illegal immigrants are being exploited underpaid disrespected and neglected. mexico loves you and wants you back. they want you to share in the joys of your citizenship. strike back dont put up with pathetic american ignorance, leave go back now. get on a greyhoud TJ bound tonight.
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Old 11-14-2009, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Houston, TX
277 posts, read 318,916 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bipolarpunk View Post
I would hardly call a study done by an ethnocnetric race identity organization such as "HARVARD "LATINO" LAW" to be credible..

Secondly, why should racial identity have ANYTHING to do with the law? Umm.. it shouldn't..
Why not? We have been feed reports from all white organizations for centuries and had to accept it as fact. Come on..even Harvard isn't good enough for you.
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Old 11-15-2009, 02:43 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,412,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbartlebee View Post
So, if a group called the HARVARD White Law Review came out with an report that said illegal immigrants cost more in government services than they actually put into our economy, would you expect Latino advocacy groups to accept their findings without question?
If the topic was of my interest, I would read it. I would also make sure that the author was using reliable facts and sources such as IRS, US Census, CIA, etc...I'm sure you get it.

One of my other passions is reading about they pyramids of my culture. Many caucasian archeologists come from the US to Mexico to study them. Often some of the reading and published material come from Caucasian Americans who are intriged by this mystery and phenomenon. Am I supposed to not read the material if it was written by a froup of caucasians? Am I supposed to discredit their credentials?

The question is, should you discredit research that was done by another ethnic group? Would you do the same if it was lets say,...a reasearch paper done by a Black organization on African Americans and racial profiling or any other topic just because it is a different ethnic group than yours?

Furthermore, we all know how minority groups are nit picked at. If a minority group does a research, you better believe they will do their best to provide accurate information or else every data provided will be scrutnized. Whereas for others, it is easy to point out or use USANumbers, an unreliable source, with false info and think its okay.
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Old 11-15-2009, 02:47 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,412,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
The article states that in the year 2000 350,000 ITIN forms were filed (top of pg. 23). The US census estimated 8.4 million illegals in the US in that year. This suggests that only 4% of illegals filed to pay taxes that year...Many is a relative term.

On the topic of taxation without representation, far more worrying to me is that there are 500,000+ US citizens who happen to live in the District of Columbia, many of whom pay federal taxes, and are denied any meaningful representation.
When an illegal immigrant does not file taxes, whatever amount had been deducted throught the year, is left unclaimed tax revenue that is used by our government.

I dont understand what you mean on the bold. If they are citizens, how are they not represented?
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Old 11-15-2009, 03:12 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,412,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
It's real simple.

High school dropouts use more in benefits and services than they pay in taxes. This is true for our very own HS dropouts who at least stayed in school until age 16 and speak English.

'High school dropout crisis' continues in U.S., study says - CNN.com (http://tinyurl.com/y8reg4q - broken link)
You are mixing two different subjects in one that are not connected to each other. This is about illegal immigration and taxes. While I agree that the majority of illegal immigrants do not have a high school diploma, they come here to work and not to attempt to pass high school. So your article is irrelevant to the topic. It is about high school dropout rates among different ethnicities. It quotes "Latinos" without stating legal stutus. This means it could be anyone, a US citizen of Latin ancestry, a US citizen naturalized, a legal or illegal Latino immigrant...its not clear. The only quote I found is this one...

Quote:
Nearly three of 10 Latinos, including recent immigrants, were dropouts (27.5 percent).
"recent immigrants" is not clear if they came directly to enroll in high school or if they were here since age 5. Its not clear or relevent to the topic.

Quote:
Whether you like it or not, the typical illegal alien who lacks a HS education is going to be someone the rest of us end up footing the bill for. They don't earn any money! How much do you think someone earning $18,000 a year and claims a bunch of kids as a tax deduction is going to be paying in taxes?
This is why it serves to read the article. They are not a burden on our economy. It is false information.

Quote:
Many Americans believe that undocumented immigrants are exploiting the United States economy. The widespread belief is that “illegal aliens” cost more in government services than they contribute to the economy. This belief is demonstrably false. “Every empirical study of illegals’ economic impact demonstrates the opposite . . . : undocumenteds actually contribute more to public coffers in taxes than they cost in social services.”


Quote:
This is common sense. People with minimal education and no discernible job skills who do not speak English are not going to be net contributors. Coming here and squatting illegally in the hopes that we will throw our hands up in the air and say, "Oh, all right! We will give you amnesty", is a real good deal for them and a real bad deal for the US.
I really wish we didnt have this immigration problem. The fact is, they are here, our government has been ignoring our immigration laws because it has up to this point benefitted our government. The fact that they have minimal education has turned out to be a benefit for this country or they would not accept to do hard labor for low pay. So your argument that they are a burden because of their level of education does not hold water. You think that if they trully were a burden, our government would have long, long ago deported them without mercy and without ignoring our laws?
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Old 11-15-2009, 03:28 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,412,046 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I am always baffled by reports heralding the tax contributions of illegal aliens. First, if we don’t know who they are or where they are, how do we know for a “fact” that they are indeed paying taxes? Is there a separate “secret” tax code designated for illegal aliens?
We know they are paying taxes because of the fake SSN. SS has that info as well as the IRS. There is no secret tax code except for the ITIN used to claim taxes.

Quote:
When they pay taxes using a stolen or fake SSN, the IRS doesn’t know that these are taxes paid by illegal aliens, so how "exactly" are the tax payments of illegal aliens enumerated?
Most of the time, these people do not use their fake SSN to file taxes because they know they will easily get caught if it belongs to someone else. Many immigrants I know who are here illegally do pay. They dont file a tax return because they feel guilty or dont want to get caught. Those unclaimed income tax monies remain with the government to be used in other sources.

Quote:
He belongs to a big club. As the debate over Social Security heats up, the estimated seven million or so illegal immigrant workers in the United States are now providing the system with a subsidy of as much as $7 billion a year.
The New York Times > Business > Illegal Immigrants Are Bolstering Social Security With Billions
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