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Old 11-16-2009, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028

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This bill insults our intelligence. Illegals will not pay back taxes, they will not learn English, and our government will not conduct background checks. Our borders are not secure, nor will they be secured. Granting amnesty would only serve to create an even bigger magnet for more illegal immigration, and it would produce the most devastating self-inflicted problems in the history of this nation. If they want to destroy this country, why not simply unleash nuclear weapons, and put us all out of our miseries.

If they think citizens will allow this to happen, they are sorely mistaken; and any member of Congress who votes in favor of this travesty will commit political suicide.

Quote:
The Obama administration will insist on measures to give legal status to an estimated 12 million illegal immigrants as it pushes early next year for legislation to overhaul the immigration system, Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano said on Friday.

“Let me emphasize this: we will never have fully effective law enforcement or national security as long as so many millions remain in the shadows,” she said, adding that the recovering economy would be strengthened “as these immigrants become full-paying taxpayers.”

Under the administration’s plan, illegal immigrants who hope to gain legal status would have to register, pay fines and all taxes they owe, pass a criminal background check and learn English.
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/14/us...mmig.html?_r=2
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Old 11-16-2009, 08:50 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,710,869 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
This bill insults our intelligence. Illegals will not pay back taxes, they will not learn English, and our government will not conduct background checks. Our borders are not secure, nor will they be secured. Granting amnesty would only serve to create an even bigger magnet for more illegal immigration, and it would produce the most devastating self-inflicted problems in the history of this nation. If they want to destroy this country, why not simply unleash nuclear weapons, and put us all out of our miseries.

If they think citizens will allow this to happen, they are sorely mistaken; and any member of Congress who votes in favor of this travesty will commit political suicide.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/14/us...mmig.html?_r=2
With the nuclear weapons, at least it would be over quickly. Amnesty will do nothing but encourage additional millions of impoverished, poorly educated and unskilled people to flood into the US. The border is not secure and never will be as long as our current crop of pandering politicians are in power. We will never get full implementation of e-verify because the 'ethnic advocacy groups' will fight it until the bitter end. How dare we try to keep their 'group' out of the US! The illegal aliens and their supporters possess a tribal mindset and care about no one except themselves. When enough of them have made their way to El Norte and the ones that are already here have had mobs of offspring, then they will begin to vote for more and better benefits for themselves at the expense of everyone else. Benefit systems such as ERs, that have been developed over the decades will slowly collapse and the US will begin the inevitable downward spiral into Third World status. The worst part for me will be knowing that it did not have to happen.
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Old 11-16-2009, 01:15 PM
 
Location: California
706 posts, read 796,204 times
Reputation: 179
Most, if not all,immigration ( amnesty) related legislation insults our intelligence.
They have been doing it since 1986, and it has become expected from those in DC.
But,despite their neverending attempts they have failed every time...At this point in time, I don't see them winning this battle either,,,


Despite gloating from the open-border groups about DHS Secretary Janet Napolitano'simmigration address at a liberal advocacy group Friday morning, her message was clear: "When Congress is ready to act, we will be ready to support them." In other words, the White House will not advance an amnesty until Congress makes the first move. The underlying message directed at amnesty advocates: Go bug the legislators and leave us alone.

SNIP.....
Real Meaning of Napolitano Speech: No Amnesty Anytime Soon | Center for Immigration Studies
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
Reputation: 2520
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
This bill insults our intelligence. Illegals will not pay back taxes, they will not learn English, and our government will not conduct background checks. Our borders are not secure, nor will they be secured. Granting amnesty would only serve to create an even bigger magnet for more illegal immigration, and it would produce the most devastating self-inflicted problems in the history of this nation. If they want to destroy this country, why not simply unleash nuclear weapons, and put us all out of our miseries.

If they think citizens will allow this to happen, they are sorely mistaken; and any member of Congress who votes in favor of this travesty will commit political suicide.


http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/14/us...mmig.html?_r=2
I don't know all the details but from what you're posting I am in favor of this plan.
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Old 11-17-2009, 10:56 AM
 
2,930 posts, read 6,027,655 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
This bill insults our intelligence. Illegals will not pay back taxes, they will not learn English, and our government will not conduct background checks.
And what makes you think they won't do that?

Most immigrants have done all of the above more than once. When they apply for a work permit residency or citizenship they have to prove they paid taxes. Background checks? Yes they are required. They get their fingerprints, photos of them in several angles(showing the left or right ear, can't remember which) and when they apply for US citizenship they made sure they speak English. The government has more information about them than for the average citizen who is born the USA. Employers? the ones I have worked for they made sure all those documents were up to date and if the individual could not bring the renewed cards after they expired, they would get fired. Phone calls were made to verify the documents were issued by the INS. I saw plenty of people who got fired because their permit expired.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
I don't know all the details but from what you're posting I am in favor of this plan.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ♥♥PRINC3Ss♥♥ View Post
And what makes you think they won't do that?

Most immigrants have done all of the above more than once. When they apply for a work permit residency or citizenship they have to prove they paid taxes. Background checks? Yes they are required. They get their fingerprints, photos of them in several angles(showing the left or right ear, can't remember which) and when they apply for US citizenship they made sure they speak English. The government has more information about them than for the average citizen who is born the USA. Employers? the ones I have worked for they made sure all those documents were up to date and if the individual could not bring the renewed cards after they expired, they would get fired. Phone calls were made to verify the documents were issued by the INS. I saw plenty of people who got fired because their permit expired.
On the surface, sections of this bill would seem acceptable to most citizens. After all, who would oppose securing our borders? However, most of the provisions are either unfunded, unfeasible, or simply subterfuge.

Unless changes have been made to the bill, background checks are required to be completed within 24 hours after an illegal registers. The fines will be made as installments over an undetermined length of time. They can’t pay back taxes on wages that have not been recorded, and thus, cannot be verified. They have discovered incidents in which as many as 200 illegals are using the same SSN. How would the IRS ever be able to determine what wages belong to whom? Gang members would have only to renounce their gang membership to qualify for amnesty. They are not going to be required to learn a language that our government refuses to even declare “official.”

As you know, we were promised a boatload of crap during the amnesty of 1986 -- NONE of which was honored. Why should we believe them now? How many times must one be screwed before the light comes on?

Also, remember, we are relying on a government that can’t even keep track of tourist visas. How on earth will they ensure that only the “deserving” will receive amnesty out of an estimated 20+ million, which could in reality be substantially greater?
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:22 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
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Answer this question, Why do you have to be so skeptical? You know there is the possibility they could get their act together and draft a feasible and effective plan, then implement and enforce it. I don't think it's a physical impossibility....let's not try to compare today to whatever happened in 1986. Technology has come a long long way since the Oregon Trail on the Apple II days of 1986.
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Old 11-17-2009, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Answer this question, Why do you have to be so skeptical? You know there is the possibility they could get their act together and draft a feasible and effective plan, then implement and enforce it. I don't think it's a physical impossibility....let's not try to compare today to whatever happened in 1986. Technology has come a long long way since the Oregon Trail on the Apple II days of 1986.
Technology is irrelevant when there is no will. Of course we are “capable” of doing many things. After all, we have placed man on the moon, and we have the technology to detect something as minute as a gum wrapper on the ground in Russia from a desk at the CIA headquarters in Langley, VA. Heck, our immigration laws could be enforced now. The problem is our government has no intentions of curbing illegal immigration. They really can’t, and comply with the demands of the owners of this country, the corporate elite.

The truth is we are ALL being duped. While we argue the pros and cons of illegal immigration, the status quo remains alive and well; and those who profit from illegal immigration, continue to enjoy their lives, while unemployment climbs, and citizens suffer. I don’t believe this bill will have anymore success than the last. They don’t intend to do anything but make empty promises.

Clearly, our government is not seriously attacking illegal immigration. Otherwise, companies caught employing illegals would not continue to receive a slap on the wrist, and E-Verify would be mandatory for all employers. Until our government earns the right to be trusted, I will continue to take everything they say with a grain of salt.
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Technology is irrelevant when there is no will.
You're right, all members of the US government have ZERO interest in addressing or correcting the the faulty immigration system and policies we have in place.

Trust me, if it was such a simple black and white issue with a simple cost-effective solution that would be beneficial and fair to all parties than this issue would have been corrected a long long time ago. People need to realize that it's a complex and sensitive issue with alot of people's lives at stake. I understand the whole you don't have a right to be here chant bla bla bla, but we all know that the government can't just turn it's back on a massive group of people like that and expect that'll just file out back to their nation of orgin in an orderly manner. Most solutions people have thought up would be ridiculously costly and none of them would be very effective, realistically speaking. This plan they are talking about right now, at least to me, makes alot of sense if properly and effectively implemented and enforced.
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Old 11-17-2009, 01:58 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,044,409 times
Reputation: 17688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
You're right, all members of the US government have ZERO interest in addressing or correcting the the faulty immigration system and policies we have in place.

Trust me, if it was such a simple black and white issue with a simple cost-effective solution that would be beneficial and fair to all parties than this issue would have been corrected a long long time ago. People need to realize that it's a complex and sensitive issue with alot of people's lives at stake. I understand the whole you don't have a right to be here chant bla bla bla, but we all know that the government can't just turn it's back on a massive group of people like that and expect that'll just file out back to their nation of orgin in an orderly manner. Most solutions people have thought up would be ridiculously costly and none of them would be very effective, realistically speaking. This plan they are talking about right now, at least to me, makes alot of sense if properly and effectively implemented and enforced.
There is still an estimated 1500 people sneaking in per day. How is that a secure border? The route they need to be taking is to seriously crack down on illegal businesses using illegal labor. On the other hand step up work force raids along with random sweeps like what Escondido has done. Road blocks that check licenses, make it extremely uncomfortable.

Once they cannot get a job and have a fear of being deported they will leave just like they did under Ike's watch.

All they will accomplish with this current "plan" is to deplete even more of our social service safety net and draw that many million more here illegally.
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