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Old 11-17-2009, 11:49 AM
 
304 posts, read 342,172 times
Reputation: 170

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
How is it rude, because then you can't eavesdrop on them? I just don't get why you'd care what other people choose to speak amongst themselves in public, regardless if they are visiting from another country, live there, are there on business, etc. The fact that you make such a big deal out of it just goes to show what a control freak you are, thinking that everybody has to conform to whatever appeases to you. Sorry dude, but someday you're going to have to realize that you aren't the center of the universe, life does not stop and start at your convenience, etc.
"Dude?" As I said in my previous post, a coarsening...lack of civility. Your use of the word "dude" speaks volumes. Do I long for America the way it was while I was growing up? Yes. Do I want people to assimilate and speak English in the stores and restaurants I frequent in America? Yes. Do I think you should only be able to vote, take your driver's license, shop in English? Yes. Yes to all the above, so I will concede your point that I must be a "control freak." And for the record, it is Mrs. Dudette to you.

 
Old 11-17-2009, 11:49 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill_Smith302 View Post

Despite the ghetto attitude attitude of way too may American Blacks (which is starting to die out); anymore, I see them as fellow 'Anglos' under seige by the illegal alien hordes.

First to respond to Zacatecanas comments. The Mexican immigrant especially creates a whole other issue to the idea of culture. If I live in the Mexican Cession states where except for Utah, Colorado, and Nevada there were outposts of Spanish/Mexican culture all along and being within horseback or today automobile distance of Mexico the separation is not very drastic.

Now this includes the whole nation because of the internet and prepaid phone cards. Other Latinos benefit from the short jet travel times within this hemisphere.

We also must address two issues. One is WHAT EXACTLY IS AMERICAN CULTURE? In the 1950s this was understood to mean the White Anglo-Saxon Culture that had dominated the USA since 1620 at Plymouth Rock.

Since the 1960s when this definition was replaced with multiculturalism no one new definition has emerged. I like to call it tribalism or groupism as today everyone is herded into some sort of group or clique with the only things in common being consumerism and the English Language. WHAT ACTUALLY IS AN AMERICAN TODAY?

I think American identity is passe myself because we now live in a global world and we will soon all be citizens of a world government so whats the point in holding onto past ideas? When you can talk in real time to a person in China over the internet are we really that separate anymore?

ArizonaBear I do not know about where you are in the west but here in the Midwest as a rapper once said, "The Ghetto Won't Change." Negative Hip-Hop culture was identified as a money-maker in the late 1980s and has become a self fufilling prophecy. Around 70% of black kids are born outside of marriage, almost 50% in the Latino Community and nobody dares talk about this 30% of White Anglo babies are born without dads.

The Ghetto Culture will never die out in fact it's poisonous attributes are now copied by everyone white kids included. Hispanic kids as I showed before were often forced into accepting the lifestyle to survive because living in an African descent neighborhood it is fight or die.

This is the same in the USA as it is in Brazil. Just watch CITY OF GOD and see what I am talking about. Those black boys in the Rio ghettoes make the Crips and Bloods look like toddlers in the sandbox.

Whether you are in Latin America, Europe, or Africa there today is one African identity. That is the American black thug identity. Of course we all know in America that identity is a stereotype BUT it is also a multi billion dollar marketing global industry. All the non-African kids eat it up as well.

This is the future. A future of complete cultural degregation and disintigration. People will blame the illegal immigrants when in fact illegals are coming into a country in complete decline already. The real culprits in our decline are Madison Avenue and our Entertainment Industry.
I am not going to go over all of your comments (many of which I agree with); that stated, that ghetto Black mentaily is starting to die out for a number of reasons:

#1: the non Hispanic Black population is a diminishing minority due to a higher death rate, lower birthrate (below replacement level I believe) as well as more and more 'bi-racial' people no longer identifying as AA.

#2: despite the best efforts of the gangsta rap losers to 'keep AA's on the back of the bus'; more and more Blacks are believing in personal responsibility, education, etc. and saying the hell with the ghetto mentality.

#3: with Obama in the White House, Oprah being the highest paid woman in media, etc: the 'race card' as used by some Blacks is starting to look very silly at best and patronizing at worst against their own people.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 12:52 PM
 
871 posts, read 1,413,749 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
What's silly about it? We still have a basic culture and our language is still English. Why is it silly to expect immigrants or even citizens to speak the language of our country out in public? Restaurants has nothing to do with it. We haven't "evolved" away from our basic culture though I guess you would like that to happen from the gist of your post.
yes, restaurants of different ethnic persuasion are quite an indication of muliticulturalistic trends. if you don't realize that, you are beyond reasoning.

a culture that is not multicultural tends to have more mono elements in comparison. america has elements from all around the world, some more concentrated in larger cities.

then dilineate what you mean by basic culture of america??? i'd like to hear it.

i don't care about this evolution away from basic culture you speak of because i don't see it anyways. is it eating mashed potatoes and steak for dinner and attending a baptist church on sunday? lol.

if you haven't noticed america is constantly changing and is innovative. even american music has evolved from different elements which are not all indigenous european.

please explain this "fantasy" basic culture you speak of. lmao
 
Old 11-17-2009, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,247,801 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
Can't you read? I said it is all around me. One can't help but hearing it. That is why I said "it is in your face". Why would I eavesdrop when I don't even know what they are saying?

You're entitled to your opinion but you can bet your bottom dollar that if millions of Chinese decided to migrate to Mexico speaking their languages constantly out in public the Mexicans would have the same complaint. It is about not feeling at home in your own country anymore. It has nothing to do with control. It is about non-assimilation. If you think I am the only American that feels that way then you have another think coming. I don't look at myself as being special. I just want to feel at home in my own damned country and that is literally impossible when you hear more Spanish being spoken than English.
My point is that the only logical reason I can think of that you'd want people around you speaking English is because you were really nosey and absolutely had to know what they were saying. The fact of the matter is that they aren't talking to you, so it shouldn't make any difference whether they are speaking English, speaking Spanish, communicating in American sign language or British sign language for that matter. That brings up another interesting point, does it offend you when deaf people immigrate to America and then communicate to each other in public with British Sign Language, Quebec Sign Language or Argentinian Sign Language? or are we limiting this argument to audio languages? Do you want me to stop eating ethnic food because it doesn't make you feel like you're at home, do I have to walk by you on the street eating a hot dog for now on instead of baklava or a huarache? If your ears are so offended by people failing to assimilate than I'm assuming your nose is equally offended? Can I no longer listen to Mexican Rachero music in public, do I have to trade in my Manu Chao cds for Elvis Presley records? Do I have to change my cell phone ring to a song in English any time I'm treading American soil? Since my home is in the United States should I worry about my neighbors being offended by my welcome mat because it says "Bienvenidos." ? Damn, it looks like I'm going to have to make alot of lifestyle changes to make sure that people like you feel comfortable about my level of "assimilation."

P.S. I was being sarcastic.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 01:16 PM
 
3,071 posts, read 7,441,689 times
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Simple answer to your question is that they dont want to and no one is making them do it......To them this place is just another mexico or where ever it is they came from..lol
 
Old 11-17-2009, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,247,801 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nativechief View Post
Simple answer to your question is that they dont want to and no one is making them do it......
Nor should they have to, and nor should anyone have the right to make them do it.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Nor should they have to, and nor should anyone have the right to make them do it.
Wrong! If a person wants to move to the USA; he or she should assimilate---------not the other way around.

Flip side: how the hell would Mexico like it if I decided to move there and expected the Mexican people to accommodate me up to and including speaking English to me? Most likely; the above to tell me to go screw myself------and, rightly so.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,247,801 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Wrong! If a person wants to move to the USA; he or she should assimilate---------not the other way around.

Flip side: how the hell would Mexico like it if I decided to move there and expected the Mexican people to accommodate me up to and including speaking English to me? Most likely; the above to tell me to go screw myself------and, rightly so.
I'm not saying I disagree with this statement to a certain extent but the argument that was made that it bothers chicagonut that there are people around him in public who are speaking amongst themselves in a non-english language (and not to that particular person) is absolutely ridiculous...people do things that annoy other people all the time, so is life. Assimilation is one thing, but insinuating that people shouldn't be able to to make non-english verbal communication in Public is just absurd. I mean I guess if we were a communist country the government could probably attempt to enforce something ridiculous like that but I thought this was America where we're given those basic freedoms....like speech, etc.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 02:15 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
Reputation: 17682
I've usually notice it when two guys are talking in English and a female shows up. The guys then start talking about her in Spanish. That's rude.

Or, when two workers are speaking English and someone else appears and they switch to Spanish. That's also rude. If it's something not to be heard by the third party then take it outside or to another room. Yes, it is rude.

I know a guy that is fluent in like five. When people do that to him he hears it in Spanish and talks back in German. When the guy asks what he's saying he retorts with, "Why don't we just keep it in English".
 
Old 11-17-2009, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Ohio
9 posts, read 15,726 times
Reputation: 16
#2: despite the best efforts of the gangsta rap losers to 'keep AA's on the back of the bus'; more and more Blacks are believing in personal responsibility, education, etc. and saying the hell with the ghetto mentality.

#3: with Obama in the White House, Oprah being the highest paid woman in media, etc: the 'race card' as used by some Blacks is starting to look very silly at best and patronizing at worst against their own people.[/quote]

Arizona Bear

I agree and disagree. The thing is gangsta rap and it's cultural connotations have already done their job. Look at the white anglo illegitimacy rate of over 30%. That is a fruit of the MTV generation where mothers and fathers sat their white kids in front of MTV all day while they worked.

The baby momma phenomenon which was a "black" thing in the 1980s is now everyones thing. This is so common now Hollywood promotes it as good and right. Normal family life is now the abhorration.

In the dying cities of the Midwest the "gangsta" lifestyle is the black lifestyle. Where I am from in Northeast Ohio black people I would say 90 95% of the time live in or on the periphery of the ghetto or inner city.

That is because that unlike Arizona which has grown up over the past 40 years our urban residency patterns were hard wired before World War One. Advancement here is very hard for white people so you can imagine how it is for minority groups.

Barack Obama's election did no more or no less than John McCain. The kids dont care about all of that they're watching Rap/Hip Hop videos on BET and MTV which only show the most negative music.

The Hispanic Kids have picked up the gangsta lifestyle and now call it their own.

For example in 1980 it was relatively rare in the Mexican community for a girl to have children unmarried. Today most girls do not get married. They mirror the 70% number in the Black community and the 30% number in the white community as the Mexican number now is somewhere between 40% and 50%.

Factor in the Puerto Ricans who are American citizens and have been here since before the welfare state of the 1960s and were among the first Rappers you would see added together that illegitimacy rate hit close to 70%. The Ricans are a long way into the Hip Hop lifestyle.

Like I said before this gangsta lifestyle is worldwide now. Kids come here from all over the world as gangstas because they see MTV and BET in their home countries. There are Crips in Japan and Latin Kings in Madrid Spain.

My estimation is this. For the 95% of all American Blacks things will stay relatively the same. That means the hustle and flow will go on unabated.

For the biracials of whom over 70 % plus are illegitimate they will be disaffected and go towards the Hip Hop Thug lifestyle as that is the music world view of the disaffected. Of course some will be successful but of those who are I would say 90% will be raised with two parents.

In the Midwest and the South thug life will live forever unless the illegitimacy rate drops and marriage rates/church adherence goes up. That goes for blacks, whites and Hispanics.

In the Hispanic world things will get worse unless the Roman Catholic Church lays the hammer down on some people. I dont see that happening. I think the Pope has lost his hold on people's minds and is seen as nothing but a feeble old man bedecked in jewels.

In the White Anglo community we will continue our way into the slime of degeracy as we slowly become majority atheist. The future generation of white Anglo kids will be hip hop thugs or pushovers as their will be few fathers and mothers together to raise them.

I know this is negative but it is my vision of the future if things stay on the cultural decline throughout all races in America we are going through continues on into the abyss like the Western Roman Empire.

On the other hand traditional morality and culture could have a resurgance and the nation could be saved. Dont hold your breath on that one.
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