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Old 11-17-2009, 02:27 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
Reputation: 2520

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
I've usually notice it when two guys are talking in English and a female shows up. The guys then start talking about her in Spanish. That's rude.

Or, when two workers are speaking English and someone else appears and they switch to Spanish. That's also rude. If it's something not to be heard by the third party then take it outside or to another room. Yes, it is rude.

I know a guy that is fluent in like five. When people do that to him he hears it in Spanish and talks back in German. When the guy asks what he's saying he retorts with, "Why don't we just keep it in English".
Most of the time it's just your assumptions and/or misinterpretation that is causing the issue. I bet 9 out of 10 times that happens it isn't because they are trying to talk crap about you but because they are embarrassed about speaking their imperfect English in front of native speakers, hence the switch back to their native language. It happens to me sometimes when I'm speaking Spanish and native Spanish speakers enter my vicinity, It makes me suddenly become self conscious of my thick gringo accent and I'll resort back to the comfort of speaking my native English tongue. I don't find that rude or insulting, and I applaud those people for making an attempt to communicate with each other in English in the first place. Give them a break, yeesh.

 
Old 11-17-2009, 02:34 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,044,409 times
Reputation: 17688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
Most of the time it's just your assumptions and/or misinterpretation that is causing the issue. I bet 9 out of 10 times that happens it isn't because they are trying to talk crap about you but because they are embarrassed about speaking their imperfect English in front of native speakers, hence the switch back to their native language. It happens to me sometimes when I'm speaking Spanish and native Spanish speakers enter my vicinity, It makes me suddenly become self conscious of my thick gringo accent and I'll resort back to the comfort of speaking my native English tongue. I don't find that rude or insulting, and I applaud those people for making an attempt to communicate with each other in English in the first place. Give them a break, yeesh.
What So two Spanish speakers speak English all day until an English speaker shows up so they switch to Spanish? Ya, ok, sure. That doesn't cover why they do it when a good looking female shows up? It's obvious they are talking about the female. Is the excuse the culture thingy?
 
Old 11-17-2009, 03:14 PM
 
1,604 posts, read 3,417,607 times
Reputation: 1521
Or how about this: do for the Blacks and Latinos what the "America Culture" leniently does for the Asians and Indians who make the effort to Assimilate: Reward them for it! You have a legitimate concern for the disintegration of morality and the lack of assimilation from minorities, but remember that these groups that you complain won't assimilate, it was not long ago that they did their damnedest to assimilate to the American culture. This, however, was met with a bunch of Whites who didn't want Blacks and certain Latinos to become a functional part of the American culture. All while there was discrimination against Irish, Italians, and Jewish people, compared to the barriers Blacks and Latinos faced, all they experienced was some limited-time hazing discrimination that lasted for a generation or two. When America truly recognized Italians and Irish as fellow Americans, it was then that Irish gangs and Italian Mafias would significantly drop in dominance and would eventually just become a mere memory. These forces, once seen as a threat to the American way would be reincarnated as a fantasized on the movie screen as glamorized anti-heroes (and no, the Black and Latino gang-bangers in the media today aren't being positively glamorized as anti-heroes with good intentions, they're being pushed as images to scare the rest of America into maintaining fear for all minorities). Notice the reason why many Asians are Indians are productive members of society. Family and upbringing has a lot to do with it, but the way in which they are treated by society could be a deal-breaker. Notice how many Asians and Indians were given minimal barriers to live their lives productive and successful, and hence had no need to create militant race based groups. Now compare that to how Blacks and Latinos who were positive contributors to society were (and in many cases, are still) being treated. This - believe it or not - was the main reason why groups like La Raza and the Black Panthers were created. Also, look at places across this country where discrimination was rampant versus areas where it was less so. What was the reason for this? The ability to assimilate. Places like Denver, Seattle, Portland, and Minneapolis didn't made it nearly as hard for a black person to assimilate as places like Chicago, Detroit, Boston, most of the South, and even NYC. Same case for Latinos, only the Southwest seems to be the epicenter of preventing Latinos who were productive to assimilate.

By barriers to assimilate, what would that consist of? Well it ranges from financial barriers like not allowing them to get a job they would be qualified for and not qualifying them for a loan for a home even if they had good credit. Judicial barriers would include pulling them over even if they didn't look like hoodlums and giving them stiffer penalties for crimes than their white counterparts. Social barriers (which I believe is the biggest problem today) would include restricting minorities to date whites or even other minorities just outside their race, whether by the legal forces of anti-miscegenation laws of the past, or today's social forces of having media outlets parading the most violent of Latinos and dumbest of Blacks on our TV and movie screens and selling it to the world as the standard norm of those ethnic groups.

For all of you individuals who really Really REALLY want to revive the "American Culture," suck up your pride and accept the fact that a racially monolithic based culture isn't going to fly in the 21st Century! Notice I said a "mono-racial based culture." I'm not saying submit to the ways of multiculturalism, that clearly hasn't worked! I'm saying to embrace and welcome with open arms ALL individuals who make an effort to live productive lives, regardless of skin color or religion. Granted that they shouldn't push their religion or native culture in your face, you shouldn't completely villanize them for having different religions and customs as long as they are respectful of individual choice. And given the fact that they're more assimilated, there's a much slimmer chance of these minorities trying to force their ways on you. The last thing that needs to be done in order to promote assimilation is to embrace minorities who by mannerisms are culturally and socially no more different than "Anglo Americans." And not just to live by them, work by them, and play by them. It's done by working with them living with them, playing with them, and yes, sleeping with them! Only then will the minorities who are in destructive subcultures realize the true way to success in this country and will shape up their act and follow suit!
 
Old 11-17-2009, 03:15 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,252,279 times
Reputation: 2520
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
What So two Spanish speakers speak English all day until an English speaker shows up so they switch to Spanish? Ya, ok, sure. That doesn't cover why they do it when a good looking female shows up? It's obvious they are talking about the female. Is the excuse the culture thingy?
I'm not saying that never happens but I can almost guarantee you that when the English speaker shows up they switch to Spanish out of being self-conscious about making an English mistake and then you thinking they are an idiot. Don't always assume they are doing it as an attempt to talk behind your back, because that isn't usually necessarily the case.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Florida
1,313 posts, read 1,337,507 times
Reputation: 462
Because they don't have to.
Because they only have to Press 2, or flip the application over, or turn the instruction book around to the back, or look unerneath the English sentence.
Because we're too afraid of offending someone.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 03:31 PM
 
871 posts, read 1,414,113 times
Reputation: 438
Quote:
Originally Posted by hortysir View Post
Because they don't have to.
Because they only have to Press 2, or flip the application over, or turn the instruction book around to the back, or look unerneath the English sentence.
Because we're too afraid of offending someone.
that's not the reason. the reason is the majority of americans want spanish to be the second language, don't mind it or enjoy mexican culture. americans really like mexican food and music etc. americans in general are kind of country type folk and like 'down home' type cultures etc.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 04:27 PM
 
304 posts, read 342,297 times
Reputation: 170
"Notice how many Asians and Indians were given minimal barriers to live their lives productive and successful, and hence had no need to create militant race based groups."

Give them a generation. It may very well be that the first born generation may have a very different attitude than their parents did. Their parents, who were grateful for the opportunity to come to America to better their lives may have a very different attitude than their American born children. Sometimes the first born generation don't know what their parents were running away from. Sometimes in an effort to remember their heritage and culture they disregard ours not realizing that in the process they may be turning this country into what their parents ran away from. I say sometimes, because this of course isn't always the case, but it needs to be said.

"Same case for Latinos, only the Southwest seems to be the epicenter of preventing Latinos who were productive to assimilate."

You would get a very different answer from my "Latino" husband who was born and grew up in the Southwest who happens to be a very successful businessman today, his "Latino" brothers I might add are quite successful as well. I put Latino in quotes because my husband and I do not believe in the hyphenated-American. He always has considered himself to be American, period. I submit that is partially why he is successful. He never played the race card or held a pity party. He wasn't raised that way. His parents came from Mexico in the mid-50s. His parents are naturalized citizens and appreciate the opportunities that presented themselves. With regard to the Asians, Indians and Mexicans of which you speak...I've been wondering, are some of those folks who vote bringing in more socialism or communism to this countries politics? I'm just curious because I was recently told by a businesswoman who travelled extensively to India, the two political parties are Socialism and Communism. Wow! Really? We know from visiting Mexico in the early 80s the Communist symbol was all over the place. I grew up during a time when Communism was still considered a scary thing, so I couldn't wait to cross back over the border into my own country. As I said, this was in the early 80s. I haven't been to that part of Mexico since, (TJ ), so that may have changed by now.

"By barriers to assimilate, what would that consist of? Well it ranges from financial barriers like not allowing them to get a job they would be qualified for and not qualifying them for a loan for a home even if they had good credit. Judicial barriers would include pulling them over even if they didn't look like hoodlums and giving them stiffer penalties for crimes than their white counterparts. Social barriers (which I believe is the biggest problem today) would include restricting minorities to date whites or even other minorities just outside their race, whether by the legal forces of anti-miscegenation laws of the past, or today's social forces of having media outlets parading the most violent of Latinos and dumbest of Blacks on our TV and movie screens and selling it to the world as the standard norm of those ethnic groups."

I've already established my husband and the rest of his family have done well, so I'll skip to the rest of your comments.

Since I'm what you would call "white" the whole dating/marrying a minorty barrier doesn't make sense to me. I would add that our half "brown" son is currently dating a "black" woman and has dated Asian women as well.

As far as not being hired for jobs for which they are qualified, I might have to grant you that only because I worked as a Human Resources Manager for the largest retailer in this country and will relate my experience to you. Since we had Affirmative Action quotas by which we had to abide, I was unable to hire an "African-American" who was more qualified than the "Pacific Islander" I needed in order to meet government quotas. Additionally, since we needed to meet the quota of a Hispanic Female in a management role...guess what? I had the hispanic last name and I was female and I was in management. Was I hispanic? No, but I had the hispanic last name. Done deal, quota met. This is why I am so against Affirmative Action. The intention was good, but it no longer holds water and it only ends up discriminating against those who are qualified for the job.

I've also worked in the mortgage business. I can tell you from my personal experience in Southern California that we never discriminated against any minority. They either qualified for the loan or they didn't. I would be interested to know where you got your information on that one. There were laws that were obeyed when I was in the business.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 04:51 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00 View Post
yes, restaurants of different ethnic persuasion are quite an indication of muliticulturalistic trends. if you don't realize that, you are beyond reasoning.

a culture that is not multicultural tends to have more mono elements in comparison. america has elements from all around the world, some more concentrated in larger cities.

then dilineate what you mean by basic culture of america??? i'd like to hear it.

i don't care about this evolution away from basic culture you speak of because i don't see it anyways. is it eating mashed potatoes and steak for dinner and attending a baptist church on sunday? lol.

if you haven't noticed america is constantly changing and is innovative. even american music has evolved from different elements which are not all indigenous european.

please explain this "fantasy" basic culture you speak of. lmao
The same so-called fantasy basic culture that Mexico,Japan, China, Italy, Germany and the rest of world's countries have! If that is what you want to call their unique identities also. I am not playing your multi-cultural game here. Remain in denial if you like. Those that do, do so because they can't stand the white majority and our basic culture that still remains dominant in this country so they deny it. It doesn't change the facts.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by rory00 View Post
that's not the reason. the reason is the majority of americans want spanish to be the second language, don't mind it or enjoy mexican culture. americans really like mexican food and music etc. americans in general are kind of country type folk and like 'down home' type cultures etc.
Speak for yourself please. I sure as hell do not want any second language here in the USA with official status. Yes: I want to see English become the official language.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 04:58 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,149,569 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slig View Post
My point is that the only logical reason I can think of that you'd want people around you speaking English is because you were really nosey and absolutely had to know what they were saying. The fact of the matter is that they aren't talking to you, so it shouldn't make any difference whether they are speaking English, speaking Spanish, communicating in American sign language or British sign language for that matter. That brings up another interesting point, does it offend you when deaf people immigrate to America and then communicate to each other in public with British Sign Language, Quebec Sign Language or Argentinian Sign Language? or are we limiting this argument to audio languages? Do you want me to stop eating ethnic food because it doesn't make you feel like you're at home, do I have to walk by you on the street eating a hot dog for now on instead of baklava or a huarache? If your ears are so offended by people failing to assimilate than I'm assuming your nose is equally offended? Can I no longer listen to Mexican Rachero music in public, do I have to trade in my Manu Chao cds for Elvis Presley records? Do I have to change my cell phone ring to a song in English any time I'm treading American soil? Since my home is in the United States should I worry about my neighbors being offended by my welcome mat because it says "Bienvenidos." ? Damn, it looks like I'm going to have to make alot of lifestyle changes to make sure that people like you feel comfortable about my level of "assimilation."

P.S. I was being sarcastic.
No, it is your conclusion that is irrational. Why would I care about someone's conversation content that I don't even know? I already explained to you my reasons for viewing it the way I do and you still question it and to try to make it out to be something else? This is strickly about language usage in this country, nothing else so the rest of your post is totally unrelated to what I am objecting to. I don't appreciate your so-called sarcasm about an issue I feel is important.
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