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Old 11-17-2009, 12:07 AM
 
Location: Ohio
9 posts, read 15,726 times
Reputation: 16

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When most people say immigrants they think of the days when poor starving Irish arrived at Castle Garden in NYC or the Italians, Greeks, Slavs, and Jews at Ellis Island in the 1880s to 1914. From there many had job recruiters waiting for them and then they boarded the trains for the Midwest and some even further out to America's Garden Spot, California. Why was this America's "Golden Age?"

During America's Golden Age it was understood: conform to White English Protestant cultural norms and speak English or be left behind. This was defined then as the only "Real American" culture. Proof of this is that almost every word you can think of had to be Anglicized.

The assimilation process was helped by the fact that telephones, postal services, and other things did not exist in Eastern Europe or Italy as they do today. News and communication with home being in some cases completely severed the immigrants were forced to become American out of necessity. Though the road was bumpy and discrimination was rife by the 1940s the WASPization of most of the ethnic whites and many of the Jewish people was almost complete.

Then two things happened. One was modernization. Telephones, postal services, air travel, and other things meant that connections to home never had to be severed. The other thing that happened was the dismantling of the WASP dominated American culture.

In the 1960s the Left in the United States defined Americanism as inherently racist. Malcolm X had stated the point earlier No I'm not an American, I'm one of the 22 million black people who are the victims of Americanism.

As a result of Black Power, feminism, multiculturalism, and other 'isms that emerged out of the 1960s the culture fragmented into tribalist cultures. In other words today there is no such thing as an American culture. There are many cultures in America but no longer an "American" culture. About the only thing we have in common is US Citizenship that is it.

Immigrants coming today are coming into a dying culture to begin with. The United States has been in freefall cultural decline since World War Two. Though our economy stayed strong our culture was rotting at the core. The rot became noticable in the 1960s and today the cancer had consumed the nation.

Even basic tenats of right and wrong are no longer held in kind by American citizens. When NAMBLA is defended in court as having free speech rights you know the nation has collapsed.

If I was a Muslim coming to this nation I would say the h%%l with assimilation as well. If assimilation means junior high students shooting sex videos to send on their cell phones and pedophiles being guaranteed their sacred Constitutional rights then to Hades with the United States.

No wonder Muslims will just exploit us as the cash cow we are. We are fast becoming not good for anything else but the opportunity to make money.

 
Old 11-17-2009, 12:32 AM
 
Location: Ohio
9 posts, read 15,726 times
Reputation: 16
Default An Addendum about Latinos including Brasil

Most Americans especially Anglos are concerned by the idea of hordes of destitute men and women from Latin America showing up in their nation. People want to know why do those Mexicans or other Latin nationalites never learn to speak English correctly or if they do they learn Ebonics or why do people do this or that. Here are my observations.

First we have to say that many Latin American immigrants are assimilating fine. I wanted to get that said up front.

We will address Mexicans first. The main reason why many Mexicans do not assimilate is because Mexico is within a a couple days drive from many areas in the United States. Add to the fact that many Mexicans live in border states such as California going back and forth to Mexico is not difficult.

As for other Latinos such as Colombians, Dominicans, Puerto Ricans, and even Brasilians jet travel makes keeping connected a snap. A flight from Miami to Puerto Rico or the Domincan Republic is very short. A flight to Bogota, Caracas, or Sao Paulo takes longer but one can leave New York at 6 am and be sitting down for supper at about 4pm New York time which is about 7pm in Brasil in the fall and 5pm in Venezuela. I believe average flight time to Brasil is about nine hours from New York. Colombia and Venezuela would be shorter.

Add to the fact that prepaid phone cards, Vonage, MagicJack, and the Internet allows cousins in New York to stay connected to cousins and friends in Lima connections are never really severed.

Okay heres an answer to why so many immigrants kids talk and act like ghetto thugs. Very simple. Immigrants have to move to the cheapest areas possible to live and survive. Most often they are in the "ghetto" or "skid row" type areas dominated by Black Americans.

As anyone knows when you go to a majority black school it does not matter whether you are white or latino you learn the hustle and flow to survive or you will be beat down with regularity.

A good example is Salvadorans. Salvi boys going to a black school are usually a foot shorter than the average black teen. Of course they are going to learn to have swagger and fight in packs. Its the law of the jungle kill or be killed. When your opponents are on average 6 ft 2 black boys and you are at most a 5 ft 3 Salvi you better be inventive or learn how to be a true thug.

That is my observation about the immigrant latino culture in the USA. A combination of global technology and the glorification and survival aspect of adopting Hip Hop Culture has shaped our nation for years to come.

The United States in conclusion is in real trouble not because of assimilation but because there is no culture to assimilate into and because globalization and technology keeps new immigrants completely in contact with parent cultures.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 05:23 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,408,714 times
Reputation: 475
I think you made a good point with your last sentence. New technology such as phones, email, etc. make it easier to stay in contact with family and friends back home whereas in the past, it was only the pony express and a boat...months later you have a letter.

Even for those that are indigenous and cannot write their language because it is a "spoken language", I have seen them communicate via the computer and cam. That is not to say that they will not assimilate into the American culture because I know many that do. It just takes time.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785
I agree with about 98% of Bill_Smith302's post.

I am the son of someone who came here from Eastern Europe (my mom was a generic Anglo whose family had been here since the 18th Century); well, I wanted to be an American more than anything else. Even as a child, I perceived so-called 'ethnics' as being others---------whether they were White or not. I was born/raised in the Wash DC area.

Despite the ghetto attitude attitude of way too may American Blacks (which is starting to die out); anymore, I see them as fellow 'Anglos' under seige by the illegal alien hordes and, if the crap hit the fan----------I may just be out there 'having their backs'.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 06:02 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
Reputation: 17682
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
I think you made a good point with your last sentence. New technology such as phones, email, etc. make it easier to stay in contact with family and friends back home whereas in the past, it was only the pony express and a boat...months later you have a letter.

Even for those that are indigenous and cannot write their language because it is a "spoken language", I have seen them communicate via the computer and cam. That is not to say that they will not assimilate into the American culture because I know many that do. It just takes time.
And that time it takes is too long. The language is only part of it too. Right now we have a rolling block of Illegals coming in that don't assimilate in their lifetime but their children or grandchildrens. We have a continuous colonization/splintering of other Nation's people living here.

To want to become legal just so you don't get deported is wrong.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 06:08 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,408,714 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
And that time it takes is too long. The language is only part of it too. Right now we have a rolling block of Illegals coming in that don't assimilate in their lifetime but their children or grandchildrens. We have a continuous colonization/splintering of other Nation's people living here.

To want to become legal just so you don't get deported is wrong.
I hear you 1ATP. It should not be only about the legalization part. However, I have seen so many people that have assimilated. I dont think that we acknowledge that. The reason why we think they dont assimilate is because they speak to each other in their native tongue. Speaking in Spanish to each other and the fact that there are many they can engage in conversation with, in the same language, does not mean that they dont speak English.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 07:29 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,144,640 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
I hear you 1ATP. It should not be only about the legalization part. However, I have seen so many people that have assimilated. I dont think that we acknowledge that. The reason why we think they dont assimilate is because they speak to each other in their native tongue. Speaking in Spanish to each other and the fact that there are many they can engage in conversation with, in the same language, does not mean that they dont speak English.
You are right it doesn't mean that don't know how to speak English but what bothers me is when they do know how and won't in public. That to me means non-assimilation.
 
Old 11-17-2009, 07:30 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,798 posts, read 30,025,534 times
Reputation: 17682
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
I hear you 1ATP. It should not be only about the legalization part. However, I have seen so many people that have assimilated. I dont think that we acknowledge that. The reason why we think they dont assimilate is because they speak to each other in their native tongue. Speaking in Spanish to each other and the fact that there are many they can engage in conversation with, in the same language, does not mean that they dont speak English.

Well, it's interesting that certain markets like Carnival, even though more expensive by far, have a devote clientèle that speak Spanish. I seriously doubt people spend more money cause they want to? I believe it's because they feel comfortable knowing the person at the check stand speaks Spanish as they are all bilingual in our local stores.

I'll speak to all the people standing around the lots in the morning if I ride my bike. If I greet and converse (in my limited Spanish) they will converse back. If I speak in English they don't. Compelling.

Yet , I see them scramble all over themselves when someone pulls up and yells code words like, "dig", or "mow". I'd like to see a test, maybe a green and white truck pull into the lot or one with ICE on the side. Do you honestly think the place wouldn't empty out fast?
 
Old 11-17-2009, 10:16 AM
 
Location: Minneapolis, MN
5,891 posts, read 12,247,801 times
Reputation: 2519
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
You are right it doesn't mean that don't know how to speak English but what bothers me is when they do know how and won't in public. That to me means non-assimilation.
So wait, why does that bother you? I guess I didn't realize we were required to speak English in public, was that law passed at the same time they passed the laws that said we can't smoke in public or when we could no longer urinate in public? How does the use of other languages in public personally affect you? Would you prefer everybody to walk in a single file line down sidewalks in army fatigues and be required to say the same programmed English message to every person who passes by? Are you one of those people who opens and closes your door knob an even number of times and can't step on cracks in the sidewalk?
 
Old 11-17-2009, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
Well, it's interesting that certain markets like Carnival, even though more expensive by far, have a devote clientèle that speak Spanish. I seriously doubt people spend more money cause they want to? I believe it's because they feel comfortable knowing the person at the check stand speaks Spanish as they are all bilingual in our local stores.

I'll speak to all the people standing around the lots in the morning if I ride my bike. If I greet and converse (in my limited Spanish) they will converse back. If I speak in English they don't. Compelling.

Yet , I see them scramble all over themselves when someone pulls up and yells code words like, "dig", or "mow". I'd like to see a test, maybe a green and white truck pull into the lot or one with ICE on the side. Do you honestly think the place wouldn't empty out fast?
Your comments remind me of an incident involving my brother. He found a wallet in his backyard. Understandably, his first thoughts were, “Why is someone’s wallet in MY backyard, and what was he doing here?” Included in the wallet was a paycheck. My brother contacted the employer and was able to obtain the phone number of the person who lost his wallet.

When my brother telephoned the guy, the guy understood English, until my brother asked how and why HIS wallet was in HIS backyard. Then, the guy responded, “No understand English.” My brother then told the guy that if he ever caught him on his property, he would first kick his arse, and then he would call the police.
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