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Old 11-25-2009, 12:05 PM
 
10,719 posts, read 20,258,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesbabe View Post
Wrong! Practically everyone I know opposes illegal immigration and only a small percentage of them have been racist or related to any of the hate "tags" you listed.

As much as I resent illegal invasion, I tend to blame our government. But it takes a lot of effort to NOT resent the illegals whenever I read police bloggers and see mug shots in the paper or on TV that show the high volume of illegals that fill our jails and prisons. And we don't need to delve further again into how they have burdened our healthcare system.

I've had these concerns since the early-to-mid-80's when nobody else seemed to. And in all that time I've watched one Leader give amnesty without securing borders, and no politician, Leader, or law-maker has avoided the issues altogether. This is not a new millenium problem, by any means.
Great post and I agree but why aren't more people directing that "resentment" to our own government and the companies that hire them?

As I mentioned in a previous response, I live in the Phoenix area. I voted for all legislation that would curb illegal immigration including fining companies for hiring illegals. Guess what happened, almost all of the legislation passed except for the ones that fined companies for hiring them. That told me all I need to know. People are hypocrites. They want to bash illegals, They want to hate on them but when it comes down to the bottom line, they don't want to punish themselves for hiring them.

Now I'm sure I'm going to get a flood of right wing propaganda making excuses why companies shouldn't be fined or held liable for hiring illegals but it doesn't change a thing. It's wrong for companies to hire illegals. If they hire them, they should be punished! It's that simple. We are as much a part of the problem and the anti-illegal immigration enthusiasts only want to point the finger at the illegals themselves for coming here.

The only thing I disagree with is the racist component. Most racists are not aware they are racist and don't think they are racist. When people are arguing that legal citizens and people who are here legally should not speak Spanish in public even in private conversations among themselves, I'm sorry but that is purely xenophobic. If you consider that rude then you are a xenophobe because you simply don't want to "hear a foreign language spoken in my country" That's what it comes down to. That's racist nonsense! That when I know this issue comes down to more than legal immigration and legality. Maybe not for you but for many folks, this is a race/cultural issue and they see Hispanics, legal or illegal, as a threat to their culture and existance. That is a lot of racist paranoia
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Denver
9,963 posts, read 18,463,432 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
why aren't more people directing that "resentment" to our own government and the companies that hire them?
I wonder about this too, it would seem that attacking the companies that hire illegals would be Numero Uno on everyone's list...especially those Hospitals and schools that are paying so much out of pocket.... right???

Illegals are definitely coming on their own will and are partly to blame, but the rate and severity of attack upon Government and our Companies is not anywhere close to that of the vitriol being directed at illegals.

Why are anti-illegals so 1 dimensional in their tactics? I don't know, it seems like a really bad tactic to me.

Picket in front of the CEO's homes, businesses, and government offices that allow this all to occur, would seem smarter...to me.
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Old 11-25-2009, 12:18 PM
 
10,719 posts, read 20,258,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peggy Anne View Post
Some people like cheap slaves. Never mind that they are breaking the law. 10 cents an hour to paint your house ?? What a deal ! American consumerism knows no limit. Hypocrites. Greedheads.
Lawbreakers ? No problem. Bet I can talk them down to 5 cents an hour if I offer free booze. : (
I laugh at the notion of "cheap slaves" What's funny is 15 years ago, you could pay a kid down the street to mow your lawn and trim your hedges for $20 to $30. When an illegal is charging 50-70 to do the same job, I don't see that as being cheap. I just think U.S. labor has gotten ridiculously expensive. If you call a guy in the yellow pages to do your lawn, he will charge an initial clean up fee of $250 and $100 a week maintenance. No wonder people are hiring illegals. And guess what that legal U.S. company is doing...that's right outsourcing illegals. You are paying a middle man. I used to be able to find a handy man to do odd jobs for reasonable rates. Now, handy men are charging outrageous fees. I asked a handy man who remove the fence around my pool. He assumed I was just talking about the gate or door to the fence and removed that. He did that in less than 10 minutes and wanted $75! I'm serious!

And it applies to anything. Call Merry Maids or a house cleaning service and they will charge 150-250 dollars to clean your house when 20 years ago, you could hire a U.S. citizen who would clean your house for $50. There is a lot of greed. Maybe if everyone didn't feel they had to buy I-phones, and houses that are 10 times their income and compete with the Jones' to charge outrageous prices, we wouldn't be hiring illegals.

Here is another example. I was trying to find people to put up Christmas lights on our house. There are not a lot of companies or even local boys that do it. The cheapest company I found charged $500 to put them up and you don't get to keep the lights. There were other companies that demanded a minimum of $800. Guess what, I found an illegal immigrant who did the same job for $150 and I paid him $200. How is it that not one U.S. company would charge $200 to put up Christmas lights? I wanted to hire a U.S. company. I called several companies and got estimates. I don't think $200 is cheap by any means. And before I get some smart!$#$ asking why I didn't put them up, l'm not at home long enough to put them up because I'm always at work.

Yes, I will admit this is hypocritical on my part. I sold out and hired the illegal to put up my Christmas lights but I promise you that I'm not alone. There are a lot of people like myself who want to hire U.S. labor for reasonable rates but what we find is there is a lot of greed among U.S. companies. And I paid $200 which isn't a lowball fee by any means for the labor to put up Christmas lights which amounts to about $40 an hour. I want to pay a fair wage but $500 to put up Christmas lights is not a fair wage. That is highway robbery

Last edited by azriverfan.; 11-25-2009 at 12:32 PM..
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Old 11-25-2009, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,300 posts, read 22,182,754 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
I laugh at the notion of "cheap slaves" What's funny is 15 years ago, you could pay a kid down the street to mow your lawn and trim your hedges for $20 to $30. When an illegal is charging 50-70 to do the same job, I don't see that as being cheap. I just think U.S. labor has gotten ridiculously expensive. If you call a guy in the yellow pages to do your lawn, he will charge an initial clean up fee of $250 and $100 a week maintenance. No wonder people are hiring illegals. And guess what that legal U.S. company is doing...that's right outsourcing illegals. You are paying a middle man. I used to be able to find a handy man to do odd jobs for reasonable rates. Now, handy men are charging outrageous fees. I asked a handy man who remove the fence around my pool. He assumed I was just talking about the gate or door to the fence and removed that. He did that in less than 10 minutes and wanted $75! I'm serious!

And it applies to anything. Call Merry Maids or a house cleaning service and they will charge 150-250 dollars to clean your house when 20 years ago, you could hire a U.S. citizen who would clean your house for $50. There is a lot of greed. Maybe if everyone didn't feel they had to buy I-phones, and houses that are 10 times their income and compete with the Jones' to charge outrageous prices, we wouldn't be hiring illegals.

Here is another example. I was trying to find people to put up Christmas lights on our house. There are not a lot of companies or even local boys that do it. The cheapest company I found charged $500 to put them up and you don't get to keep the lights. There were other companies that demanded a minimum of $800. Guess what, I found an illegal immigrant who did the same job for $150 and I paid him $200. How is it that not one U.S. company would charge $200 to put up Christmas lights? I wanted to hire a U.S. company. I called several companies and got estimates. I don't think $200 is cheap by any means. And before I get some smart!$#$ asking why I didn't put them up, l'm not at home long enough to put them up because I'm always at work.

Yes, I will admit this is hypocritical on my part. I sold out and hired the illegal to put up my Christmas lights but I promise you that I'm not alone. There are a lot of people like myself who want to hire U.S. labor for reasonable rates but what we find is there is a lot of greed among U.S. companies. And I paid $200 which isn't a lowball fee by any means for the labor to put up Christmas lights which amounts to about $40 an hour. I want to pay a fair wage but $500 to put up Christmas lights is not a fair wage. That is highway robbery
What makes you any better than those corrupt corporations? Sort of like talking about how bad car insurance companies are and then buying parts from chop shops and car thieves.
Me? I will never ever knowingly hire an illegal.
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Old 11-25-2009, 02:38 PM
 
10,719 posts, read 20,258,795 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
What makes you any better than those corrupt corporations? Sort of like talking about how bad car insurance companies are and then buying parts from chop shops and car thieves.
Me? I will never ever knowingly hire an illegal.
Technically he was legal but my suspicion is he was illegal because he was of Mexican origin, barely spoke English and offered prices that were considerably less. He is an insured worker and provided documentation. But I have no excuse because I hired someone that I knowingly assumed was illegal. Your point is fair.
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Old 11-25-2009, 05:17 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,144 posts, read 42,061,062 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Technically he was legal but my suspicion is he was illegal because he was of Mexican origin, barely spoke English and offered prices that were considerably less. He is an insured worker and provided documentation. But I have no excuse because I hired someone that I knowingly assumed was illegal. Your point is fair.
Being that he provided documentation; the onus would be on LE, not you to prove your case if the crap hit the fan.
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:50 PM
 
Location: So. of Rosarito, Baja, Mexico
6,987 posts, read 21,883,690 times
Reputation: 7007
Nice Quote "I will never ever knowingly hire an illegal".

People can say that all day long yet when they go to the mkt and buy some local produce that may have been picked by a "illegal" person...in essence are helping to pay the "illegals" wages without actually hiring then in person.

There is a trickle down effect that ends up with the consumer.

Once the flower is in bloom...it is too late...the plant would have to be cut off at the bud.

Hope some understand my logic.

Steve
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Old 11-25-2009, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,144 posts, read 42,061,062 times
Reputation: 3861
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Bagu View Post
Nice Quote "I will never ever knowingly hire an illegal".

People can say that all day long yet when they go to the mkt and buy some local produce that may have been picked by a "illegal" person...in essence are helping to pay the "illegals" wages without actually hiring then in person.

There is a trickle down effect that ends up with the consumer.

Once the flower is in bloom...it is too late...the plant would have to be cut off at the bud.

Hope some understand my logic.

Steve
Speaking for myself: I would not knowingly deal with illegals. As for my food, etc. I am not responsible for how it is produced. Read that I will deign to shop at Wal-Mart if I need a specific item and one is on my way home.
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:34 AM
 
48,505 posts, read 96,675,147 times
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Sure;I have nothing against them except for their brealing our laws.
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Old 11-30-2009, 04:15 AM
 
335 posts, read 328,183 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post

The only thing I disagree with is the racist component. Most racists are not aware they are racist and don't think they are racist.
Actually, I think most members of National Council of La Raza, MALDEF, LULAC, and MEChA know that they themselves are racist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Maybe not for you but for many folks, this is a race/cultural issue and they see Hispanics, legal or illegal, as a threat to their culture and existance. That is a lot of racist paranoia
Wouldn't the majority race in any country feel this very same way? What if, over the next 10 years, millions of Asian illegal immigrants poured into Mexico each year. Don't you think that the Mexican people would start voicing their complaints about this being a threat to their culture and existance? And if they did complain, I guess we could say that this means the Mexican people are racists.

By the way, a large percentage of Hispanic-Americans are opposed to illegal aliens being in the United States. So, do you consider these Hispanic-Americans to be racists?
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