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Old 11-18-2009, 07:46 AM
 
8,818 posts, read 8,868,577 times
Reputation: 5911
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You claim to oppose illegal immigration, yet you do not hate illegals. Why is it possible for you, yet you consider racism and xenophobia to be the impetus for the vast majority of others who share your anti-illegal stance? I do not hate illegal aliens. However, I do hate what illegal immigration has done to this country. If, by virtue of my anti-illegal stance, I am automatically labeled a racist/xenophobe, so be it. I know it isn’t true, and that’s all that matters.

BTW, “respect” is earned.
Because I don't speak with disdain about illegal immigrants that you read with most illegal threads. I know many in personal life who feel the same way I do yet on these forums people speak with such vitriolic hatred toward illegals. I don't even understand your anger. You only discussed one side. You claim they only take advantage of our system but you failed to discuss the fact that Americans exploit them for cheap labor. They also don't treat them with the same level of respect that they do with legal citizens. They suffer from racism on a daily basis. And their aspiration is to provide a better life for their families. I'm sorry but there is no rationale to have hatred for these people unless your motivation is partly inspired by racism or xenophobia. You obviously chose to focus on one side of these issues and ignore the other side. Again, I know many people who oppose immigration but they don't speak with the same tone and anger that you and others on this forum.

Last edited by azriverfan.; 11-18-2009 at 08:01 AM..
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,181 posts, read 9,369,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Right, like the serial killer too!

A person from a third world country who is starving and wants to provide a better life for his family is not the same as these criminals. This is not an excuse to avoid enforcing the law. Laws should be enforced.
Most are not starving. In particular, those from Mexico -- which is now experiencing an unprecedented obesity epidemic. Many were employed, and only come here to receive a higher wage. Others come to give birth to a U.S. citizen, to avail themselves of the myriad freebies they receive through the exploitation of their children.

There are many reasons for illegal immigration. However, starvation is generally not one.
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:49 AM
 
Location: San Diego
16,693 posts, read 12,247,754 times
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I have just as big an issue with our Govt not enforcing our existing laws, people who support breaking these laws as I do with the people breaking these laws.

Yes, there is a difference in the type of law being broken but that doesn't dismiss the fact that these people shouldn't be mine, yours or anyone elses problem here in the US. They are stealing tax money, jobs and if you think they are all flying around with halos over their heads then you must live on an Island.
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:52 AM
 
8,193 posts, read 7,354,123 times
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I don't hate illegals. I am sure that on an individual level they are very nice people. I also am sure that on an individual level many have very compelling stories.

Now, if illegal immigrants were numbered in the thousands or even a million or two we would be having a different discussion. But they are not. They number up to twenty million or more. With more coming in every day. It has to stop - there has to be a point where the nation has to say 'no more'. It is not mean spirited, not racist, and not evil to do this. What it is is survival. Our country cannot support so many uneducated and untrained people. We are not the same country that we were four years ago.
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:53 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,181 posts, read 9,369,201 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Because I don't speak with disdain about illegal immigrants that you read with most illegal threads. I know many in personal life who feel the same way I do yet on these forums people speak with such vitriolic hatred toward illegals. I don't even understand your anger. You only discussed one side. You claim they only take advantage of our system but you failed to discuss the fact that Americans exploit them for cheap labor. They also don't treat them with the same level of respect that they do with legal citizens. They suffer from racism on a daily basis. And their aspiration is to provide a better life for their families. I'm sorry but there is no rationale to have hatred for these people unless your motivation is partly inspired by racism or xenophobia. You obviously chose to focus on one side of these issues and ignore the other side. Again, I know many people who oppose immigration but they don't speak with the same tone and anger that you and others on this forum.
Had the topic of discussion been, “The exploitation of illegal aliens by greedy employers and special interest groups,” I would have addressed those issues. However, you specifically asked, “Can’t you hate illegal immigration without hating illegals?” to which I responded accordingly.

If you want to discuss the other culprits in this invasion, please start a thread. I prefer to try to remain on topic in accordance with TOS.
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Old 11-18-2009, 07:53 AM
 
8,818 posts, read 8,868,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post

Why shouldn't we resent the illegals among us who have not only violated our immigration laws but many other laws after they cross our border? Why shouldn't we resent them for stealing tax payer benefits and jobs? Why shouldn't we resent them for marching in our streets making demands they have no right to? Your sympathy is misplaced. If you are an American your sympathy should be towards your fellow Americans who have had to suffer the brunt of this invasion rather than calling us all haters, racists and xenophobes. That isn't what the majority of Americans for the rule of law are all about so why bring up so-called hate groups unless it is to smear us all or that your sympathy goes beyond what you are claiming? Justified resentment doesn't equate to hate. The word hate is used to muster up a nasty implication that it is the anti-illegals who are on the wrong side of this issue. Ain't gonna fly anymore!
Why you ask? Because these people are not coming here to hurt anyone. Their intent isn't to prevent Americans from getting a job. They are trying to do what any human being in their situation would do. It's easy to call them criminals when you aren't in their situation. Just be thankful you were not born in Mexico to a poor family. How do you fault anyone for that? Again, protect and defend the border but there is no need for the resentment.

If you are an American then you understand that we stand for what is better. We act above petty resentment and hate. As an American, you should understand it is your job to understand the human nature of this predicament while still mandating tough laws and enforcement. Your "resentment" is essentially a PC term for hate and you know it. That is not American! My duty as an American is to protect the borders and protect our jobs. It's not to show resentment toward a group of people. And I do have sympathy for those who have lost jobs and are unemployed. Just because I don't show resentment toward illegals, it doesn't mean I don't have sympathy toward my fellow Americans. Like I said, displaying "resentment" is not American nor is it okay.

And if you want to inspire and recruit more people to your cause, then you need to change your tone and approach. My way will get a lot more supporters than you justifying hate...oh sorry.."resentment" toward illegals. All that will do is push good people away from your cause because you've become obsessed with resentment rather than the issue of preventing illegal immigrants from entering this country.
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Old 11-18-2009, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Cherokee Nation
26,057 posts, read 9,301,236 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post

The problem I have is the people who are opposed to illegal immigration tend to also be racist, xenophobic, milita members and other hate group enthusiasts.

Lets look at the organizations on both sides of the fence, if you want to talk Racist. Sure withing the organizations on the anti-illegal aliens side of the fence your going find your bad apples, but when your organization is La Raza "The Race" or the Hispanic this and the Latino that, or other economic issues, the Black this or the Black that, it is based on race, plain and simple.

Now let's weigh who is actually on the racist side of the fence. Whole organizations and many of them devoted strictly to race, or Whole organizations devoted to illegal alien invaders.

You tell me who is playing the racist here!!!



Now if the question was, do we HATE illegal aliens coming to American soil?
I would say, YES I HATE that action.
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Old 11-18-2009, 08:00 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 5,592,114 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Because I don't speak with disdain about illegal immigrants that you read with most illegal threads. I know many in personal life who feel the same way I do yet on these forums people speak with such vitriolic hatred toward illegals. I don't even understand your anger. You only discussed one side. You claim they only take advantage of our system but you failed to discuss the fact that Americans exploit them for cheap labor. They also don't treat them with the same level of respect that they do with legal citizens. They suffer from racism on a daily basis. And their aspiration is to provide a better life for their families. I'm sorry but there is no rationale to have hatred for these people unless your motivation is partly inspired by racism or xenophobia. You obviously chose to focus on one side of these issues and ignore the other side. Again, I know many people who oppose immigration but they don't speak with the same tone and anger that you and others on this forum.
The problem is that you translate objection and resentment of illegal aliens to "hate". And that word is used to place a very negative and nasty emotion on the opposing side when objection and resentment are more appropriate discriptions of how we feel. This of course is done on purpose to demonize those you disagree with. It is a very transparent, devious and dishonest tactic.

What racism? Illegals are from different races. Yes, Mexicans get discussed more often for the obvious reason. They are the overwhelming majority illegally in this country. Does that equate to racism? I don't think so. What xenophobia? How can we possibly have a fear of strangers when this country has been comprised of many different ethnic groups and nationalities since its founding? Hate, racism, xenophobia are all words used to demonize the anti-illegal immigration movement. Most of us do not fit that bill including most in this forum.
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Old 11-18-2009, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Upper Marlboro, MD
734 posts, read 485,768 times
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I am against illegal immigration 100% but I don't carry any type of hate towards them.

As far as the crime, many people mentioned on this forum that all illegal immigrants are criminals & I think that this is not true.

I don't think it's right that a whole group of individuals should be judged the same based on the actions of a few bad seeds in their group.
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Old 11-18-2009, 08:06 AM
 
8,818 posts, read 8,868,577 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Had the topic of discussion been, “The exploitation of illegal aliens by greedy employers and special interest groups,” I would have addressed those issues. However, you specifically asked, “Can’t you hate illegal immigration without hating illegals?” to which I responded accordingly.

If you want to discuss the other culprits in this invasion, please start a thread. I prefer to try to remain on topic in accordance with TOS.
My point was on relevant to the discussion. You are focusing on a certain set of reasons to justify your anger without viewing this objectively.
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