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Old 11-18-2009, 09:41 AM
 
10,720 posts, read 16,883,872 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagonut View Post
For the most part they aren't starving. They just know they can have it bettter here. Did you lose your sense of rule of law and that there is a legal way to come here?
Nice try but I've already told you I'm opposed to illegal immigration. I've never lost my sense of law and I've never lost my sense of humanity either. You seem to have lost the latter and I truly pity you. This is what happens to human beings when they become obsessed with hatred, it consumes them.
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Old 11-18-2009, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Denver
9,067 posts, read 15,502,486 times
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Can you hate illegal immigration without hating illegals? Yes.

It appears some peoples motive is to only bring attention upon illegal immigration issue because our Government is not enforcing laws. However, then there are those who openly say "let's make it "uncomfortable" as possible for the illegals, so they leave".

How do you make it "uncomfortable" without racially profiling and being hateful?

Last edited by Mach50; 11-18-2009 at 10:01 AM..
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Old 11-18-2009, 09:57 AM
 
898 posts, read 1,246,928 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
If Mexico has gotten roped into being the face of illegal immigration it is because of Mexico's loud opinions on how the US should treat illegals. It is because of all the Mexican consulars built for the sole purpose of making life easier for their citizens in the US illegally.

You are correct that Mexico has a lot of wealth - too bad that doesn't translate into a thriving middle class. But because of this class disparity or perhaps in order to keep it - Mexico has decided the best way to deal with their poor and uneducated is to export them to the US. I'm afraid that the wealthy in Mexico may just have to deal with their own class and social disparities from now on instead of leaving it to the wicked and racist US.
No argument with this statement here. The same can be said for the governements of ALL the countries that are exporting their poorest and most uneducated citizens to this country.

What I do have a problem with is how, in these forums, the people who support illegal immigration are never complained about. I'm talking about the owners of the businesses that hire these people. Aren't they committing crimes as well? Shouldn't they be shown the same disdain that the illegal immigrants are being shown?

The next time you hire a cheap contractor, a cheap Phillipino nurse, buy cheap fruit, hire a cheap landscaper, hire a cheap babysitter or maid ask yourself, "Am I supporting illegal immigrants?"

As far as the comments about race or culture not being a factor, I call BS on that since so many of the posts that complain about illegal immigration are always accompanied by complaints about run down neighborhoods or neighborhoods where all the signs are in Spanish or about people who don't speak English. My grandmother was a LEGAL (as are all of us in my family) immigrant and she never learned the language enough to even hold a conversation (though she managed to communicate enough to get people to understand her) but she paid her taxes and worked her butt off cleaning houses and raising spoiled rich mothers' children pretty much her whole life. None of them ever minded her speaking English and none of them ever asked her about her resident status in this country.

I'm educated enough to realize that this is just the current wave of intolerance that comes with a wave of immigration. It happened to the Europeans, the Chinese (who were also smuggled here illegaly), the Japanese, etc. They've all had the same complaints about run down neighborhoods, crime, being a burden on the economy, taking jobs from citizens and not speaking English filed on them by racists as well.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:04 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,168,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rolexcomm View Post
As an American Citizen living abroad, Mexico, things should be looked at a little differently. NOT ALL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS ARE MEXICAN. With that said, I read this and just had to get my $.02 in. I don't know why there is a generalization that all illegal immigrants are Mexican. Most of them come from Guatemala and other southern countries. We have the same problem as you guys do in the states, illegal immigrants. The Mexicans, to tell you the truth, are pretty upset about this. But it seems like the American government and people have just generalized this issue as being Mexican and causing most Americans to dislike Mexicans as a population due to the fact that people cross the Mexican/American border and therefore must be Mexican. Did I forget to mention that they speak Spanish too? More reason being that they must be Mexican.

Let me enlighten you a little bit, I have been here for 12 years. Not once have I been rejected health care or had to pay for it unless I decided to go to a private doctor. We get free medicine, dental and cheap schools. We keep our money in our pocket and don't have to give all of it to the government through taxes, we get way more free stuff than the Americans could even fathom. My little brother just came down to live with me as we don't really have a lot of family left in the states and he is here to study. They didn't put up any protest when he applied and he goes to a good school and pays a total of get this $50.00 a month. He doesn't have to pay out of state or out of town higher prices. Everyone is treated the same. If he did this in the states he would be paying over $25,000 a year. yes a year.

Now let me give you a little history, Most of the Mexicans that do go to the States are the ones who live in Ranch towns or way down south where there is no industry. Most are good honest people just struggling through life as you and I. On the other hand, the Mexicans in the city, like where I live, are mostly RICH. When I say rich, they don't whip out their credit card to go buy a Mercedes, they go pay CASH. So tell me where the poverty is? Most Mexicans don't have credit card bills or owe money on their homes. This country has very little internal debt as opposed to the u.s. that everyone owes everything. That's my $.02 I hope I have enlightened at least one person.
Wrong! Most illegals are Latinos and out of that bunch Mexicans make up about 80% of them. Gets your facts straight.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:15 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,168,220 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmancomics View Post
No argument with this statement here. The same can be said for the governements of ALL the countries that are exporting their poorest and most uneducated citizens to this country.

What I do have a problem with is how, in these forums, the people who support illegal immigration are never complained about. I'm talking about the owners of the businesses that hire these people. Aren't they committing crimes as well? Shouldn't they be shown the same disdain that the illegal immigrants are being shown?

The next time you hire a cheap contractor, a cheap Phillipino nurse, buy cheap fruit, hire a cheap landscaper, hire a cheap babysitter or maid ask yourself, "Am I supporting illegal immigrants?"

As far as the comments about race or culture not being a factor, I call BS on that since so many of the posts that complain about illegal immigration are always accompanied by complaints about run down neighborhoods or neighborhoods where all the signs are in Spanish or about people who don't speak English. My grandmother was a LEGAL (as are all of us in my family) immigrant and she never learned the language enough to even hold a conversation (though she managed to communicate enough to get people to understand her) but she paid her taxes and worked her butt off cleaning houses and raising spoiled rich mothers' children pretty much her whole life. None of them ever minded her speaking English and none of them ever asked her about her resident status in this country.

I'm educated enough to realize that this is just the current wave of intolerance that comes with a wave of immigration. It happened to the Europeans, the Chinese (who were also smuggled here illegaly), the Japanese, etc. They've all had the same complaints about run down neighborhoods, crime, being a burden on the economy, taking jobs from citizens and not speaking English filed on them by racists as well.
Apparently you haven't read the numerous posts in here by the anti-illegals whereby they do blame the employers and our government for their role in this mess. Most Americans don't hire illegals knowingly either. If they can legally ask for someone's status in this country they would do so.

No, the "results" of illegal immigration are crime infested neighborhoods, culturall and linguistic colonization, etc. Our primary objection is the violation of our immigration laws and its ensuing problems. You are putting the horse before the cart here trying to claim that culture and language are our primary objections. That simply isn't true.

Wrong again! This isn't about intolerance it is about our immigration laws. The immigrants of the past came her legally, not so with this current wave of millions of illegals.

These illegals are taking jobs of ALL Americans including those of their own ethnic kind. Are those of their own ethnic kind racist for complaining about that? Race card alert!
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,678,111 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Right, like the serial killer too!

A person from a third world country who is starving and wants to provide a better life for his family is not the same as these criminals. This is not an excuse to avoid enforcing the law. Laws should be enforced.
I take it you are not discussing Mexico; the source of most illegal aliens? Why I say that is certain counties here in the USA have a lower per capita income than Mexico ($14K a year). Besides; obesity is now a problem SoB; not starvation.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:27 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,168,220 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
I know the difference between those two words but I just don't believe you. I think you are being dishonest and not forthcoming with your feelings. It's obvious you hate illegals. You see them as criminals. Yes, technically they are criminals but I think any reasonable person can distinguish between an illegal immigrant coming here to earn enough money to support his family versus a murderer or someone with malintent.

Xenophobia is specifically a fear of foreigners. And one reason why people like you resent illegals is because of the paranoid fear that an overwhelming majority of them will somehow change our American way of life. It goes beyond just borders. If these people were British, there would be much less resentment because they would have an easier time assimilating.
Excuse me but you don't know me personally nor my inner feelings so how dare you accuse me being things that I am not! You came in here hurling insults left and right and yes, this post will also be reported to the moderator.

I never said all illegal aliens were criminals as in felons. Are you atributting someone eleses remarks to me? It won't be the first time a pro-illegal has done that but they are all guilty of crossing our border illegally. Some commit other crimes some do not. I have never stated otherwise.

No kidding, where am I wrong that when you have an illegal invasion by the same ethnic group that it won't change the demographics of this country? We don't have a right to retain our culture and language espeically if it were to change through an illegal invasion? Do you hold the rest of the world to the same standards or is it just the USA? Sure if these illegals were the British instead that part wouldn't be a problem but I would still object to them coming here illegally. Put your race card away as it isn't appreciated in here.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:32 AM
 
335 posts, read 281,392 times
Reputation: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
I'm sick of this issue being so black and white. To me this isn't a Republican vs Democratic or Liberal vs Conservative issue. To me, this is a common sense issue that people of all backgrounds can accept. And that is hate immigration but not the immigrants.

The problem I have is the people who are opposed to illegal immigration tend to also be racist, xenophobic, milita members and other hate group enthusiasts. Like these members, I'm also strictly opposed to illegal immigration. I share Lou Dobb's views but I'm also embarrassed to be associated with these groups because unlike them, I don't hate illegal immigrants or Mexicans. I understand their plight and if I was in their situation, I would do the same thing. However, I'm not in their situation and I'm an American citizen and it's our responsibility to protect our borders. I also don't agree with the sentimental attitudes toward illegal immigration and the soft stances on it.

I wonder what happened to people who can understand treating people with respect, compassion and decency? Just because you oppose illegal immigrations, it doesn't mean you lose those values. That's why I feel these anti-illegal stances goes beyond immigration and speaking English. Because a person who was simply just opposed to that would agree with what I'm saying and wouldn't harbor such resentment toward illegals.
What race is "illegal alien"?
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:35 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,678,111 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrbartlebee View Post
What race is "illegal alien"?
I wonder that as well.
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Old 11-18-2009, 10:45 AM
 
335 posts, read 281,392 times
Reputation: 84
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
Right, like the serial killer too!

A person from a third world country who is starving and wants to provide a better life for his family is not the same as these criminals. This is not an excuse to avoid enforcing the law. Laws should be enforced.
Starving? How come I never see any of these "starving" illegal aliens on the news? I would think that pro-illegal immigration groups would want to parade these "starving" illegal aliens on TV in order to try to elicit sympathy from Americans. They groups could just have these "starving" illegal aliens lift up their shirts and expose the outline of their ribs which should be clearly visible if they were truly "starving".

But what I don't understand is how so many of these "starving" illegal aliens can afford to come up with thousands of dollars to pay the people smugglers (coyotes) to help get them over the border into the United States.
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