U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-18-2009, 05:49 PM
 
3,424 posts, read 5,220,299 times
Reputation: 1819

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
That's quite a burden to carry. I hope you find peace....

Never lost it
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-18-2009, 07:00 PM
 
898 posts, read 1,299,486 times
Reputation: 1007
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphaluce View Post
Most Americans feel not hatred toward our (especially southern) neighbors---but the frustration of betrayal by our duplicitous leaders, as well as the sting and exasperation of the disrespect and sense of entitlement displayed by illegal aliens on our Nation's soil. Were the roles reversed and Americans poured across our neighbors borders, it would be considered an invasion by those nations. I seriously doubt their citizens, government or social systems would tolerate our illegal presence the way America has (too long), tolerated scofflaws. Yet, we are called racist, inhumanitarian, oppressors, and worse, by the disingenuous who would convince us it is OUR fault, and thus our RESPONSIBILITY, to receive those who will not stand and DEMAND dignity, liberty and opportunity from their own corrupt governances. Instead, they break and enter, and fly their flags, march, demonstrate, and make demands of their neighbor. This enrages the good and generous citizens of the United States. Our disgust, however, is reserved not for illegal aliens; but for those who betray our nation; undermine our immigration laws, and defend, support and aid scofflaws, with excuses, porous defense, and subversive attempts to hold a fire-sale of precious citizenship, in exchange for cheap votes and labor.
Ask yourself how many of those corrupt governments were supported in one way or another by your own government and therefore spurred the poor and the ignorant to flee and cross borders illegally.

I come from El Salvador and the U.S. government supplied weapons and training during our civil war through the 80s because the rebels were trying to establish a socialist government. Men were recruited by force by both sides starting at the age of 12 and soldiers could shoot you on sight without any reason other than you were out past curfew. My father and my uncles can each tell you numerous stories of how they were almost rounded up and executed.

We were very lucky in that we lived in an area where battles were never fought. We were also lucky that we had relatives here in the U.S. that had already become citizens and could sponsor us but tell the teacher the fled because she had a guaranteed execution waiting for her (right after a good raping) just for being a teacher who lived in a certain area to wait five years for a sponsor and pay thousands of dollars for the paperwork to go through. Tell the mother who sent her 11 year old boy with relatives or friends that she did the wrong thing because it was illegal when he was the only one of his group of friends from his village who survived the war.

Now El Salvador has become little more than a cheap tourist spot for Euro-trash, cheap housing for Americans who retire there in gated communities and don't bother to learn the language or even deal with the people other than to hire them to work on their multiple acre ranches and cheap land for American factories who ruin rivers and get away with paying their laborers $5 a day (and no, it's not one of those countries where $5 a day is a good salary).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2009, 07:11 PM
 
6 posts, read 6,328 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
What would Mexico do without Remittances?
Where I live, we don't have those types of problems or needs. This is Mexico's silicon valley. There is plenty of money here. Most of the people that do immigrate are from farm towns. I live here and see it everyday. I run a business that I deal with the general public everday, most of the mexicans I run into or chat with are very happy with their lives and wouldn't change it. They have jobs, own their own homes. Can vacation two to three times a year. Of course I am not talking about a vacation that costs ten grand. I was just talking to a guy today that is leaving for Europe on Friday. How many Americans do you know that have gone to Europe? I know quite a few Mexicans that have.

One thing I notice here is that everybody seems like they are in fear. Fear of what? fear that we have lost our drive and ambition and somebody else is showing us up? Everybody in here including me needs to remember one thing, unless you are 100% native american, you came from somewhere else. We took this land from other people. How did the native americans feel?? Let me do a search on google and see what the native american society is saying on their forums!!!! Has anybody stopped and thought to themselves or brought up the point that the U.S. soil was never ours, we took it?

Does anybody know the real story behind thanksgiving? Not what we were taught in grade school. The REAL story. Think about it, we don't have a very good past as a nation, nor do we have a very prosperous future if we don't start at home and fix our own internal values and problems as a society. We just got our first tax rate increase here in Mexico in more than a decade. Wow. isnt that something.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2009, 07:22 PM
 
6 posts, read 6,328 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
The only people who say Americans are too good to do certain jobs are the illegal immigrants and their supporters. Americans used to do those jobs because they were able to make a living at it. Now, illegals have scabbed down wages to do the point that Americans cannot afford to take those jobs. Let me repeat that for you 'Americans can no longer afford the jobs that illegals have taken over'.
Illegals can afford to work in a packing house getting paid $5 an hour because they are packed in small houses. Businesses can make more money not only lowering the payscale for illegals, but also cutting benefits to nothing and not worrying about providing a safe work environment. This is what faces your beloved countrymen when they come to the US illegally --- and that is why Americans will no longer work in those factories, or be hired by those contractors. It is to the American blue collar workers benefit for illegal scab labor to be deported. Luckily for many of them that would be back to the utopia known as Mexico.

Ok, I never said Mexico was poor. There are poor parts to Mexico as there are poor parts to the u.s. I don't see our own trailer trash, welfare collectors jumping at the opp. to get a job. That is just too much humiliation for them. This is a **** poor contest back and forth between a bunch of people who feel unsecure and can't find any other place to take out their frustrations. You need to realize that truthfully, If you need a job you WILL get a job and it doesn't matter what they pay you. What is the unemployment rate right now?? Taking into account for the governments figures it probably sits at around 20% true numbers. I know plenty of blacks, whites (more so), latinos that don't have jobs and they are u.s. born citizens. The government doesn't even let you pass gas anymore in the states without fear of some sort of lawsuit. Tell me something mr. smart guy? Can you get up and take a weeks vacation right now?? and pay cash? do you own your own home, cars and no payments to credit cards? I don't think so. As the saying goes, go go go, off to work I go. To pay who? UNCLE SAM!!!

Have you ever looked at the other side of the coin and said wow, how is it that our prices have been driven so high??? What is it people need so much money to live? Just to make ends meet and have the resources to buy grocerys every week? Think about that and then you'll realize that the u.s. has become too much of a materialistic country.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2009, 07:36 PM
 
1,003 posts, read 2,313,525 times
Reputation: 669
Quote:
Originally Posted by azriverfan. View Post
I'm sick of this issue being so black and white. To me this isn't a Republican vs Democratic or Liberal vs Conservative issue. To me, this is a common sense issue that people of all backgrounds can accept. And that is hate immigration but not the immigrants.

The problem I have is the people who are opposed to illegal immigration tend to also be racist, xenophobic, milita members and other hate group enthusiasts. Like these members, I'm also strictly opposed to illegal immigration. I share Lou Dobb's views but I'm also embarrassed to be associated with these groups because unlike them, I don't hate illegal immigrants or Mexicans. I understand their plight and if I was in their situation, I would do the same thing. However, I'm not in their situation and I'm an American citizen and it's our responsibility to protect our borders. I also don't agree with the sentimental attitudes toward illegal immigration and the soft stances on it.

I wonder what happened to people who can understand treating people with respect, compassion and decency? Just because you oppose illegal immigrations, it doesn't mean you lose those values. That's why I feel these anti-illegal stances goes beyond immigration and speaking English. Because a person who was simply just opposed to that would agree with what I'm saying and wouldn't harbor such resentment toward illegals.
It is precisely these types of missaligned, inflamatory statements, that continue to ignite the immigration issue. There is nothing racist, or hate related regarding one wanting to enforce, and strengthen immigration laws. Americans do not believe we should have a responsibility to take "care of the world." The jobs here are gone! It's time for other countries to start creating "opportunity" for a change for their own people.

For the Americans who have lived here for several generations, we have seen how U.S. society is changing for the worst. The economy has been terrible for years, and over the past three years it has been the worst since the great depression. Part of the reason, is because we have too many immigrants coming here competing for jobs. It's common sense; our country continues to lose more jobs than it creates. Our resources are becoming more scarce, and more in demand, thus more expensive. Our landfill is over flowing.

Your desperation for Americans to embrace the deluge of illegal immigrants is evident. Stating you shouldn't "hate illegals, only illegal immigration" how ridiculous. This is like stating, "you can hate murder, but not the murderer."

You believe you can just continue to gain points for playing the race card, over and over, but the bottom is gradually caving in on you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2009, 07:36 PM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,507,446 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolexcomm View Post
Where I live, we don't have those types of problems or needs. This is Mexico's silicon valley. There is plenty of money here. Most of the people that do immigrate are from farm towns. I live here and see it everyday. I run a business that I deal with the general public everday, most of the mexicans I run into or chat with are very happy with their lives and wouldn't change it. They have jobs, own their own homes. Can vacation two to three times a year. Of course I am not talking about a vacation that costs ten grand. I was just talking to a guy today that is leaving for Europe on Friday. How many Americans do you know that have gone to Europe? I know quite a few Mexicans that have.

One thing I notice here is that everybody seems like they are in fear. Fear of what? fear that we have lost our drive and ambition and somebody else is showing us up? Everybody in here including me needs to remember one thing, unless you are 100% native american, you came from somewhere else. We took this land from other people. How did the native americans feel?? Let me do a search on google and see what the native american society is saying on their forums!!!! Has anybody stopped and thought to themselves or brought up the point that the U.S. soil was never ours, we took it?

Does anybody know the real story behind thanksgiving? Not what we were taught in grade school. The REAL story. Think about it, we don't have a very good past as a nation, nor do we have a very prosperous future if we don't start at home and fix our own internal values and problems as a society. We just got our first tax rate increase here in Mexico in more than a decade. Wow. isnt that something.
So what does the past have to do with the present other than us remembering to not let history repeat itself? We all came from somewhere else including the natives. They came across the Bering Strait.

The past is just that, the past and all those people are dead now. Are you claiming that because some of us may have had anecestors that go that far back that we are somehow accountable for what they did or that it negates our immigration laws today? It appears so from what you posted.

By the way, my ancestors only came here in the early 1900's so they never were a part of those conflicts between the natives and the Europeans. Do I get a pass then?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2009, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 37,419,092 times
Reputation: 3789
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolexcomm View Post
Where I live, we don't have those types of problems or needs. This is Mexico's silicon valley. There is plenty of money here. Most of the people that do immigrate are from farm towns. I live here and see it everyday. I run a business that I deal with the general public everday, most of the mexicans I run into or chat with are very happy with their lives and wouldn't change it. They have jobs, own their own homes. Can vacation two to three times a year. Of course I am not talking about a vacation that costs ten grand. I was just talking to a guy today that is leaving for Europe on Friday. How many Americans do you know that have gone to Europe? I know quite a few Mexicans that have.

One thing I notice here is that everybody seems like they are in fear. Fear of what? fear that we have lost our drive and ambition and somebody else is showing us up? Everybody in here including me needs to remember one thing, unless you are 100% native american, you came from somewhere else. We took this land from other people. How did the native americans feel?? Let me do a search on google and see what the native american society is saying on their forums!!!! Has anybody stopped and thought to themselves or brought up the point that the U.S. soil was never ours, we took it?

Does anybody know the real story behind thanksgiving? Not what we were taught in grade school. The REAL story. Think about it, we don't have a very good past as a nation, nor do we have a very prosperous future if we don't start at home and fix our own internal values and problems as a society. We just got our first tax rate increase here in Mexico in more than a decade. Wow. isnt that something.
And later groups of Indians beat up on earlier societies so what is your point?

The past is the past: the difference being that the Euros (both Anglo and Hispanic) were simply bigger and badder 'Indians'--------who happened to have firearms. The past is the past-----------it cannot be done. For that matter; the Aztecs, Comanche and other tribes were ruthless as well. Besides: had it not been the Euros; other conquerers could/would have come here.............the Japanese come to mind.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2009, 07:47 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,274,283 times
Reputation: 2880
Quote:
Originally Posted by rolexcomm View Post
Ok, I never said Mexico was poor. There are poor parts to Mexico as there are poor parts to the u.s. I don't see our own trailer trash, welfare collectors jumping at the opp. to get a job. That is just too much humiliation for them. This is a **** poor contest back and forth between a bunch of people who feel unsecure and can't find any other place to take out their frustrations. You need to realize that truthfully, If you need a job you WILL get a job and it doesn't matter what they pay you. What is the unemployment rate right now?? Taking into account for the governments figures it probably sits at around 20% true numbers. I know plenty of blacks, whites (more so), latinos that don't have jobs and they are u.s. born citizens. The government doesn't even let you pass gas anymore in the states without fear of some sort of lawsuit. Tell me something mr. smart guy? Can you get up and take a weeks vacation right now?? and pay cash? do you own your own home, cars and no payments to credit cards? I don't think so. As the saying goes, go go go, off to work I go. To pay who? UNCLE SAM!!!

Have you ever looked at the other side of the coin and said wow, how is it that our prices have been driven so high??? What is it people need so much money to live? Just to make ends meet and have the resources to buy grocerys every week? Think about that and then you'll realize that the u.s. has become too much of a materialistic country.

What?! Look, the truth is that you have a great life in Mexico and all your friends have a great life in Mexico because there is no safety net for the poor and uneducated in Mexico. How much of your Mexican taxes go to the public school system? How much of your Mexican taxes go to free breakfast and lunch programs for children? What about subsidized housing? Food stamps? Oh thats right -- you guys just make life so tough in Mexico for those that are poor and impoverished that their safety net has become the border. And yet you brag about that system? You point the finger at US citizens for not being willing or able to work for $5 an hour? Deplorable.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2009, 10:22 PM
 
6 posts, read 6,328 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
What?! Look, the truth is that you have a great life in Mexico and all your friends have a great life in Mexico because there is no safety net for the poor and uneducated in Mexico. The system is designed for people who work and want to work. If they think it is easier to go to another country, I think they must be dummies. There are plenty of opps here available to the people. Especially me being a foreigner and I made it. I am not saying it is better or worse here, but I can assure you I have lived both sides of the fence and this country isn't as bad as you think it is nor are the people. I get a good morning by customers inside a store when I walk in, do you? I get a good morning from an incoming phone call, do you? There are a lot of cultural differences but, illegal immigration isn't a Mexican problem and shouldn't be generalized. How much of your Mexican taxes go to the public school system? What i save in taxes goes to my life and how I decide to raise my own children. This is nunya but my son goes to a private school do yours? Once again, Once again, goes to show I have more freedom here than in the states. How much of your Mexican taxes go to free breakfast and lunch programs for children? Almost all kids goto school with a lunch. The children that don't go with a lunch are able to buy a lunch for less then a dollar. What about subsidized housing? Look up infonavit on the net and seguro social, guaranteed housing and medical care for ALL not just mexicans.. Food stamps? Look up the programs available. I know there are a few. Oh thats right -- you guys just make life so tough in Mexico for those that are poor and impoverished that their safety net has become the border. And yet you brag about that system? You point the finger at US citizens for not being willing or able to work for $5 an hour? Deplorable.
Its true whether you want to accept it or not. Those jobs wouldn't be available if they would just get off their ruffs and get a job! Deplorable we have so many people without work and the government takes your hard earned money and decides who it is going to pay with it. Do you have any decisions as to who you are going to give your money to? Do you have guaranteed FREEE prescriptions and health care, eye care, dental care? Do you have guaranteed housing? Can you buy a house and pay for it within 2 years? There are ups and downs to every society. There will never be a perfect one. We have lost our vision and values in the u.s. and personally, I think most people are just lost in the routine of life and never speak up.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-18-2009, 10:24 PM
 
6 posts, read 6,328 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
And later groups of Indians beat up on earlier societies so what is your point?

The past is the past: the difference being that the Euros (both Anglo and Hispanic) were simply bigger and badder 'Indians'--------who happened to have firearms. The past is the past-----------it cannot be done. For that matter; the Aztecs, Comanche and other tribes were ruthless as well. Besides: had it not been the Euros; other conquerers could/would have come here.............the Japanese come to mind.
Point, you and your family immigrated at some time. There are thousands of illegal americans here. I just read a case where an american was in puerto vallarta raping kids? So the grass is the same on both sides of the fence.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:20 AM.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top